Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2008 November 21

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November 21[edit]

Image:She wouldn't Be Gone Single-Blake Shelton.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: keep -Nv8200p talk 14:06, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:She wouldn't Be Gone Single-Blake Shelton.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Publichall (notify | contribs).
  • The Source has been found and changed. The picture has been shrunk on the article to actual size to reduce pixelation. It will do for now. Publichall (talk) 04:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:Atlas New York.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: keep. -Nv8200p talk 14:10, 29 November 2008 (UTC) This is a photo taken by the user on Fifth Avenue, New York. Suggesting it for deletion may represent confusion between copyrightable image (i.e. a particular photograph, a modern sculpture in a private location) and uncopyrightable streetscape image, which falls under the principle of "panorama". No photograph of any street with modern buildings would be acceptable for Wikipedia if the items in the public scenery were copyright.--Wetman 02:59, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you serious? What is your authority for that proposition? ThreeOneFive (talk) 16:52, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete There is no freedom of panorama in the US for artwork. The sculpture is by Lee Lawrie and was installed in 1937, so the image is non-free. Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:33, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What does that mean? What is a 'freedom of panorama'? Why does the date of installation matter? 98.193.90.207 (talk) 23:06, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep The rationale by howcheng from commons appears to support free use, prima facie. — Becksguy (talk) 03:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:Ali Reza Poodat.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Ali Reza Poodat.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Ehsankhoshbakht (notify | contribs).
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Image:Alibabataj.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Alibabataj.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Noorzad (notify | contribs).
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Image:Alifshinobi.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Alifshinobi.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Alifshinobi (notify | contribs).
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Image:Alison norrington bw.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Alison norrington bw.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Alisonnorrington (notify | contribs).
  • Unused image of Alison Norrington. Seems to be the person who also uploaded it as well. Soundvisions1 (talk) 03:16, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:Allinhouse.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Allinhouse.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by AdamInSendai (notify | contribs).
  • Unused personal image of "All of us inside the house." Soundvisions1 (talk) 03:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:Als0605 in June 2008.gif[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Als0605 in June 2008.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Als0605 (notify | contribs).
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Image:PicJungle Logo.gif[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:PicJungle Logo.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Autodesigner (notify | contribs).

Image:

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Image:Borden-Lizzie_1893_prussicacid.gif[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Borden-Lizzie_1893_prussicacid.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Richard_Arthur_Norton_(1958-_) (notify | contribs).
  • CV: This GIF was lifted from the NY Times website here. Though the original article may be PD, the GIF almost certainly is not. The NYT PDF link is free to non-registered users and has been substituted for this GIF at Lizzie Borden. Somercet (talk) 13:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • You can not magically recopyright a work once it has joined the public domain, you can republish it, but the clock doesn't restart. The article was published in 1893, and very clearly falls into the public domain. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 20:45, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Agreed. Still, I don't think this belongs on Wikipedia — as a source document, its proper place is on Wikisource. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 16:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So why didn't you move it, rather than just delete it? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 05:15, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Image:Angel in Bukidnon.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Wrong forum. The image is on Commons, please nominate it for deletion there if you still feel it should be deleted. AnomieBOT⚡ 01:26, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Angel in Bukidnon.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by User:Wynchard_Bloom (notify | contribs).
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Image:Monarchbutterfly04.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Monarchbutterfly04.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jimfbleak (notify | contribs).
  • Orphaned, unverifiable source, we now have better Calliopejen1 (talk) 13:55, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:Redadmiral18.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Redadmiral18.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jimfbleak (notify | contribs).
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Image:Smtortoiseshell7.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Smtortoiseshell7.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jimfbleak (notify | contribs).
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Image:Rugosa_rose.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Rugosa_rose.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Apgarm (notify | contribs).
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Image:Map_of_world_highlighting_Antarctica.png[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Map_of_world_highlighting_Antarctica.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Wapcaplet (notify | contribs).
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Image:Ambeer006.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Ambeer006.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Burbie (notify | contribs).
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Image:America Class.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:America Class.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by BrendelSignature (notify | contribs).
  • Unused image of data from the US Census Bureau. Image was uploaded in 2006 but the image itself has no date in it. Without a date the information contained in the image is somewhat useless. Also all of this could be replaced by plain text. Soundvisions1 (talk) 18:57, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:Amman nada.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Amman nada.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Beeji (notify | contribs).
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Image:Amor Ambrosio.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Amor Ambrosio.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Caylub (notify | contribs).
  • Unused image. Description is "I am a photographer, this is my friend. I uploaded this solie for myself." Soundvisions1 (talk) 19:17, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:An uzi at the alamo poster.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:An uzi at the alamo poster.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Omala (notify | contribs).
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Image:The_General_Theory.gif[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:The_General_Theory.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Reuv (notify | contribs).
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Image:Look arrrrw.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Look arrrrw.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nevermindthelove (notify | contribs).
  • Part of a series of self made pictures and CD-Demo covers for articles that do not exist all uploaded by the same user. Soundvisions1 (talk) 20:05, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:Andre DeJuan Quote.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Andre DeJuan Quote.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nevermindthelove (notify | contribs).
  • Part of a series of self made pictures and CD-Demo covers for articles that do not exist all uploaded by the same user. Soundvisions1 (talk) 20:06, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:Andre DeJuan My Destiny Album Cover.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Andre DeJuan My Destiny Album Cover.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nevermindthelove (notify | contribs).
  • Part of a series of self made pictures and CD-Demo covers for articles that do not exist all uploaded by the same user. Soundvisions1 (talk) 20:06, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:Andre DeJuan Burn Up The Dancefloor Cover.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Andre DeJuan Burn Up The Dancefloor Cover.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nevermindthelove (notify | contribs).
  • Part of a series of self made pictures and CD-Demo covers for articles that do not exist all uploaded by the same user. Soundvisions1 (talk) 20:06, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:AndreDeJuan.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:AndreDeJuan.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nevermindthelove (notify | contribs).
  • Part of a series of self made pictures and CD-Demo covers for articles that do not exist all uploaded by the same user. Soundvisions1 (talk) 20:08, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:AndreDeJuanFace.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:AndreDeJuanFace.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nevermindthelove (notify | contribs).
  • Part of a series of self made pictures and CD-Demo covers for articles that do not exist all uploaded by the same user. Soundvisions1 (talk) 20:08, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:My Destiny Cover.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My Destiny Cover.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nevermindthelove (notify | contribs).
  • Part of a series of self made pictures and CD-Demo covers for articles that do not exist all uploaded by the same user. Soundvisions1 (talk) 20:09, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:André DeJuan Save Me Cover.JPG[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Nv8200p (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 13:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:André DeJuan Save Me Cover.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nevermindthelove (notify | contribs).
  • Part of a series of self made pictures and CD-Demo covers for articles that do not exist all uploaded by the same user. Soundvisions1 (talk) 20:09, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Image:LawrenceFobesKing.jpg[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was: Keep (non-admin closure) --kotra (talk) 19:34, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:LawrenceFobesKing.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by WhisperToMe (notify | contribs).
  • A non-free headshot of a non-notable dead kid is not necessary for the understanding of a school shoting not of a ill-defined listing. Damiens.rf 21:38, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep It has a fair use rationale which is justified as this boy is deceased and no new picture can be taken. It seems to follow policy, and add to the article which has passed the notability requirement. It is a picture of one of the two main people involved, and adds to the article without being tasteless. It has nothing to do with the "ill defined listing" which is a separate issue. This seems to be a pointy nomination. Verbal chat 21:47, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep. First, Damiens, can you show some respect for a murder victim by not referring to him as "a non-notable dead kid'? I agree it image is not necessary for the list, but it should remain for the E.O. Green shooting. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 21:52, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    The term "headshot" is also quite unbecoming. Verbal chat 21:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep. but as above - for the main article, not for the list. --Cameron Scott (talk) 21:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep for reasons outlined above. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep. Rationale for proposed deletion is poorly worded and possibly spurious. Rivertorch (talk) 22:45, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep for reasons already given (fair use, etc) for the article, but not for the list. Suggest keep in article per WP:SNOW. — Becksguy (talk) 00:45, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    "snowball" is never a valid reason to shortcut decisions about policy-violating images. See this discussion and get impressed. --Damiens.rf 14:13, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Apples and oranges, Damiens. There is no chance to take a CC-BY photo of Larry King, is there? This is the situation for which non free use was created and policy is satisfied here. Snowball closes are quite reasonable if there are no dissenting votes. — Becksguy (talk) 23:57, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep. Precisely what Fair Use is for. And that fair use to be restricted to the article on the school shooting itself. I deprecate the pejorative language used in the nomination. The young man is notable in his own right according to all of our criteria here. It is most assuredly not his fault that he is also dead. His image should not be used to illustrate articles other than the single, directly relevant article. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 09:47, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Weak keep The child was murdered in part because of his appearance, which makes his murder different than most. (In general, people probably don't need to see a photo of a murder victim.) I think many readers will wonder just what this child looked like, which caused him to be killed by his classmate, and because of that the article would be significantly worse without the photo. Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:36, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This IfD has been up for nine days with clear consensus. Would someone please close it. I would but I !voted. — Becksguy (talk) 22:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Whitmans 357.jpg[edit]

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The result of the discussion was: keep. Image has been properly sourced and granted a Creative Commons license by the source. -Nv8200p talk 02:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Whitmans 357.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Victor9876 (notify | contribs).
  • Claimed to be both fair-use and public domain, but no source supplied. Damiens.rf 21:39, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hey Damien, I added to the tags the source for the photos - The Austin Historical Library. All of the Agencies, Federal and State worked on the information. A lot of them are co-mingled and have no mention of which or whom. There shouldn't be a problem and if there should be, a cease and desist order is easy (and recommended) to follow. Please withdraw the tags on the images. Thanks!Victor9876 (talk) 06:27, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Please, edit the image description page to add some verifiable information about where did you get this photo and its authorship. The Austin Historical Library has a lot of pictures. There isn't a number or something identifying this one? --Damiens.rf 12:27, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is an Austin Historical Society library, however, which is clearly what the uploader was referring to. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead) 21:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Then please cite the source with its correct name on the image description page. If this is from the web then the URL needs to be cited. If not, how was this obtained from the library? Some type of communication from the library is needed to support the PD claim. Nv8200p talk 01:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, as per above.Victor9876 (talk) 00:22, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • NOTE: Please hold off on finalizing this discussion. I have written the Austin History Center, which is part of the Austin Public Library. The website noted above is quite clear that this center is not open on Thursday and Friday, so it may take a few days to complete what is needed. The original uploader has stated he obtained hard copies of these photos directly from the law enforcement agencies, which included the Austin Police Department and FBI, having to complete extensive paperwork to get clearance at the time, prior to the complete collection of photos being turned over to the Austin History Center. These images are notable and add greatly to the article and are worth waiting for permission clearance. I find, as a side note, that rather than standing back and assuming they'd been downloaded from some website while offering no assistance whatsoever in what you wanted or what needs to be done to clear up the questions about them would have been a great help to those of us who don't routinely deal with images. This has been made exceedingly difficult since no one is now in the Austin area and can just drop by and have a chat with the curators and demanding library catalog numbers and weblinks to sources isn't going to give you what you seem to want. Thanks for the assistance. Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:19, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I received an e-mail from the photo curator of the Austin History Center that states "the photos were created by the Austin Police Department but never published." The image is not the work of the United States Government nor is it in the public domain. -Nv8200p talk 04:32, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • And I received an e-mail from the photo curator of the Austin History Center that further states "However, if anyone owns copyright, it would be either us or the Police Department. Neither is likely to have a problem with those photos being up on the web. Plus, because Wikipedia is a non-profit educational website, it is likely that the use fits in the Fair Use guidelines. Please let me know if something more formal is needed." (italics added) I have responded to ask them to send OTRS permissions for usage of the photos. Again, please hold off closing this until the permissions have been obtained. Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • That still makes it a non-free image. The image has to meet the non-free content criteria to be used. It fails WP:NFCC#8 as it is just an image of a gun. It is not significant to the understanding of the article. -Nv8200p talk 01:47, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is there some reason why you are battling so hard against these particular images? It would be quite nice for you to please wait until the curator sends in the licensing before you reach a conclusion. He may opt to send in a public domain release. I would also suggest that to some degree, no image is significant to the understanding of any given article, although one can certainly illustrate or bolster awareness or understanding of the severity or preparedness or absence or whatever of a given event. Essentially, there comes a point when saying it isn't significant to the understanding of the article becomes an issue of POV, not neutral determination. Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:05, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, there definitely does seem to be strange desire to have the images removed, and clutching at "copyVio" straws to get it done instead of discussing rationally on the talk page which images should/shouldn't be used. There is no clear copyright violation, in fact the copyright holder has said they believe it satisfies Fair Use themselves...so I suggest leaving this argument up to the talk page of the article in question, and not randomly deleting/keeping images and letting the throw of a dice determine what the Charles Whitman article looks like. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead) 06:35, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, Mr. Larry Moore (Nv8200p) has changed his reasoning for deletions several times, if one reason gets questioned, he uses another, if that gets questioned...here'e another. His duplicious display of prejudice for the photo's are not consistent. Even his own photo on his user page has different descriptions, one says "being pompous", another "looking (whatever)". He even removed the Houston McCoy photo from a sub-article of the Whitman page, without any discussion. This administrator is an irony. A swaggering texan (small caps intented), who's going to show the world the power of a texan, and the world will have to agree. We've lived with one texan for the past eight years with the same swagger, look where the world is because of it! Let's put this person where he needs to be; anywhere but the Whitman page. Let him copy-vio Blue Bonnets or Travis County parks. In fact, let him create a page and place photos of Hippy Hollow and the people there, where his efforts might be appreciated. Victor9876 (talk) 08:26, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have received a cc of the permission sent to [email protected] this morning covering the release and use of the four Whitman article related images on this page. Please do not delete and allow this to be properly licensed. Wildhartlivie (talk) 15:53, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Whitman arsenal.jpg[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: keep. Image has been properly sourced and granted a Creative Commons license by the source. -Nv8200p talk 02:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Whitman arsenal.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Victor9876 (notify | contribs).
  • No verifiable source to show this image is really what it is said to be, and to check the PD status. Damiens.rf 21:40, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hey Damien, I added to the tags the source for the photos - The Austin Historical Library. All of the Agencies, Federal and State worked on the information. A lot of them are co-mingled and have no mention of which or whom. There shouldn't be a problem and if there should be, a cease and desist order is easy (and recommended) to follow. Please withdraw the tags on the images. Thanks!Victor9876 (talk) 06:27, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless better sourcing (there is no "Austin Historical Library") is provided or an OTRS ticket is supplied. -Nv8200p talk 19:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is an Austin Historical Society library, however, which is clearly what the uploader was referring to. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead) 21:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Then please cite the source with its correct name on the image description page. If this is from the web then the URL needs to be cited. If not, how was this obtained from the library? Some type of communication from the library is needed to support the PD claim. Nv8200p talk 01:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, as per above.Victor9876 (talk) 00:21, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • NOTE: Please hold off on finalizing this discussion. I have written the Austin History Center, which is part of the Austin Public Library. The website noted above is quite clear that this center is not open on Thursday and Friday, so it may take a few days to complete what is needed. The original uploader has stated he obtained hard copies of these photos directly from the law enforcement agencies, which included the Austin Police Department and FBI, having to complete extensive paperwork to get clearance at the time, prior to the complete collection of photos being turned over to the Austin History Center. These images are notable and add greatly to the article and are worth waiting for permission clearance. I find, as a side note, that rather than standing back and assuming they'd been downloaded from some website while offering no assistance whatsoever in what you wanted or what needs to be done to clear up the questions about them would have been a great help to those of us who don't routinely deal with images. This has been made exceedingly difficult since no one is now in the Austin area and can just drop by and have a chat with the curators and demanding library catalog numbers and weblinks to sources isn't going to give you what you seem to want. Thanks for the assistance. Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I received an e-mail from the photo curator of the Austin History Center that states "the photos were created by the Austin Police Department but never published." The image is not the work of the United States Government nor is it in the public domain. -Nv8200p talk 04:32, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • And I received an e-mail from the photo curator of the Austin History Center that further states "However, if anyone owns copyright, it would be either us or the Police Department. Neither is likely to have a problem with those photos being up on the web. Plus, because Wikipedia is a non-profit educational website, it is likely that the use fits in the Fair Use guidelines. Please let me know if something more formal is needed." (italics added) I have responded to ask them to send OTRS permissions for usage of the photos. Again, please hold off closing this until the permissions have been obtained. Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:34, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • That still makes it a non-free image. The image has to meet the non-free content criteria to be used. It fails WP:NFCC#8 as it is just an image of some guns. It is not significant to the understanding of the article. -Nv8200p talk 01:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is there some reason why you are battling so hard against these particular images? It would be quite nice for you to please wait until the curator sends in the licensing before you reach a conclusion. He may opt to send in a public domain release. I would also suggest that to some degree, no image is significant to the understanding of any given article, although one can certainly illustrate or bolster awareness or understanding of the severity or preparedness or absence or whatever of a given event. Essentially, there comes a point when saying it isn't significant to the understanding of the article becomes an issue of POV, not neutral determination. "It is just an image of some guns." Does that mean you are doubting that they are not the guns used? Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:07, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, there definitely does seem to be strange desire to have the images removed, and clutching at "copyVio" straws to get it done instead of discussing rationally on the talk page which images should/shouldn't be used. There is no clear copyright violation, in fact the copyright holder has said they believe it satisfies Fair Use themselves...so I suggest leaving this argument up to the talk page of the article in question, and not randomly deleting/keeping images and letting the throw of a dice determine what the Charles Whitman article looks like. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead) 06:35, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, Mr. Larry Moore (Nv8200p) has changed his reasoning for deletions several times, if one reason gets questioned, he uses another, if that gets questioned...here'e another. His duplicious display of prejudice for the photo's are not consistent. Even his own photo on his user page has different descriptions, one says "being pompous", another "looking (whatever)". He even removed the Houston McCoy photo from a sub-article of the Whitman page, without any discussion. This administrator is an irony. A swaggering texan (small caps intented), who's going to show the world the power of a texan, and the world will have to agree. We've lived with one texan for the past eight years with the same swagger, look where the world is because of it! Let's put this person where he needs to be; anywhere but the Whitman page. Let him copy-vio Blue Bonnets or Travis County parks. In fact, let him create a page and place photos of Hippy Hollow and the people there, where his efforts might be appreciated.Victor9876 (talk) 08:20, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have received a cc of the permission sent to [email protected] this morning covering the release and use of the four Whitman article related images on this page. Please do not delete and allow this to be properly licensed. Wildhartlivie (talk) 15:57, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Viv Beltran.jpg[edit]

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The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted as G7 by Ilmari Karonen (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 01:26, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Viv Beltran.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by ThinkBlue (notify | contribs).
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Whitman relaxed.jpg[edit]

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The result of the discussion was: keep. Image has been properly sourced and granted a Creative Commons license by the source. -Nv8200p talk 02:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Whitman relaxed.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Victor9876 (notify | contribs).
  • No source to prove the PD status. Damiens.rf 21:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hey Damien, I added to the tags the source for the photos - The Austin Historical Library. All of the Agencies, Federal and State worked on the information. A lot of them are co-mingled and have no mention of which or whom. There shouldn't be a problem and if there should be, a cease and desist order is easy (and recommended) to follow. Please withdraw the tags on the images. Thanks!Victor9876 (talk) 06:26, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless better sourcing (there is no "Austin Historical Library") is provided or an OTRS ticket is supplied. -Nv8200p talk 19:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is an Austin Historical Society library, however, which is clearly what the uploader was referring to. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead) 21:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Then please cite the source with its correct name on the image description page. If this is from the web then the URL needs to be cited. If not, how was this obtained from the library? Some type of communication from the library is needed to support the PD claim. -Nv8200p talk 01:04, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, as per above.Victor9876 (talk) 00:19, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as the only licensing provided in the varied links above I find is: "© 1995 City of Austin, Texas. All Rights Reserved." — pd_THOR | =/\= | 19:22, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • The links above are not given as the actual source of the images, but to establish the name & site of the location where the images are currently housed. The copyright on the webpage is for the webpage, not for the myriad of exhibits and matierials that are housed there. Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • The problem with that maintenance is that there are no other copyright claims provided where you indicate, much less that they're products of the United States government. — pd_THOR | =/\= | 21:02, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • NOTE: Please hold off on finalizing this discussion. I have written the Austin History Center, which is part of the Austin Public Library. The website noted above is quite clear that this center is not open on Thursday and Friday, so it may take a few days to complete what is needed. The original uploader has stated he obtained hard copies of these photos directly from the law enforcement agencies, which included the Austin Police Department and FBI, having to complete extensive paperwork to get clearance at the time, prior to the complete collection of photos being turned over to the Austin History Center. These images are notable and add greatly to the article and are worth waiting for permission clearance. I find, as a side note, that rather than standing back and assuming they'd been downloaded from some website while offering no assistance whatsoever in what you wanted or what needs to be done to clear up the questions about them would have been a great help to those of us who don't routinely deal with images. This has been made exceedingly difficult since no one is now in the Austin area and can just drop by and have a chat with the curators and demanding library catalog numbers and weblinks to sources isn't going to give you what you seem to want. Thanks for the assistance. Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:21, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no evidence that this image was taken by the United States Government as originally tagged or that it was published pre-1978 with no copyright notice as I had retagged it (with hopes that it was). No evidence the image is in the public domain or that the copyright holder would be the Austin History Center just because it is in their collection. -Nv8200p talk 14:48, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • And I received an e-mail from the photo curator of the Austin History Center that further states "However, if anyone owns copyright, it would be either us or the Police Department. Neither is likely to have a problem with those photos being up on the web. Plus, because Wikipedia is a non-profit educational website, it is likely that the use fits in the Fair Use guidelines. Please let me know if something more formal is needed." (italics added) I have responded to ask them to send OTRS permissions for usage of the photos. Again, please hold off closing this until the permissions have been obtained. Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:36, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • That still makes it a non-free image. The image has to meet the non-free content criteria to be used. It fails WP:NFCC#8 as it is just an image of a young Whitman. It is not significant to the understanding of the article. -Nv8200p talk 01:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is there some reason why you are battling so hard against these particular images? It would be quite nice for you to please wait until the curator sends in the licensing before you reach a conclusion. He may opt to send in a public domain release. I would also suggest that to some degree, no image is significant to the understanding of any given article, although one can certainly illustrate or bolster awareness or understanding of the severity or preparedness or absence or whatever of a given event. Essentially, there comes a point when saying it isn't significant to the understanding of the article becomes an issue of POV, not neutral determination. Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:09, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, Mr. Larry Moore (Nv8200p) has changed his reasoning for deletions several times, if one reason gets questioned, he uses another, if that gets questioned...here'e another. His duplicious display of prejudice for the photo's are not consistent. Even his own photo on his user page has different descriptions, one says "being pompous", another "looking (whatever)". He even removed the Houston McCoy photo from a sub-article of the Whitman page, without any discussion. This administrator is an irony. A swaggering texan (small caps intented), who's going to show the world the power of a texan, and the world will have to agree. We've lived with one texan for the past eight years with the same swagger, look where the world is because of it! Let's put this person where he needs to be; anywhere but the Whitman page. Let him copy-vio Blue Bonnets or Travis County parks. In fact, let him create a page and place photos of Hippy Hollow and the people there, where his efforts might be appreciated. Victor9876 (talk) 08:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have received a cc of the permission sent to [email protected] this morning covering the release and use of the four Whitman article related images on this page. Please do not delete and allow this to be properly licensed. Wildhartlivie (talk) 15:58, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Hbk-logo.jpg[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted as G7 by Ilmari Karonen (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 01:26, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Hbk-logo.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by ThinkBlue (notify | contribs).
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Whitmandeck.jpg[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: keep. Image has been properly sourced and granted a Creative Commons license by the source. -Nv8200p talk 02:44, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Whitmandeck.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Victor9876 (notify | contribs).
  • Claimed to be both fair-use and public domain, but no source supplied. Damiens.rf 21:44, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hey Damien, I added to the tags the source for the photos - The Austin Historical Library. All of the Agencies, Federal and State worked on the information. A lot of them are co-mingled and have no mention of which or whom. There shouldn't be a problem and if there should be, a cease and desist order is easy (and recommended) to follow. Please withdraw the tags on the images. Thanks!Victor9876 (talk) 06:26, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless better sourcing (there is no "Austin Historical Library") is provided or an OTRS ticket is supplied. -Nv8200p talk 19:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is an Austin Historical Society library, however, which is clearly what the uploader was referring to. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead) 21:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Austin Historical Society Library is exactly what I meant to reference. Just down the street from the Travis County Courthouse. You appear to live in Austin, check it out. Nice library.Victor9876 (talk) 00:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Then please cite the source with its correct name on the image description page. If this is from the web then the URL needs to be cited. If not, how was this obtained from the library? Some type of communication from the library is needed to support the PD claim. Nv8200p talk 01:06, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, image was not in the public domain when I got. It has since been released to the Austin History Center for public view and reproduction.Victor9876 (talk) 00:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • NOTE: Please hold off on finalizing this discussion. I have written the Austin History Center, which is part of the Austin Public Library. The website noted above is quite clear that this center is not open on Thursday and Friday, so it may take a few days to complete what is needed. The original uploader has stated he obtained hard copies of these photos directly from the law enforcement agencies, which included the Austin Police Department and FBI, having to complete extensive paperwork to get clearance at the time, prior to the complete collection of photos being turned over to the Austin History Center. These images are notable and add greatly to the article and are worth waiting for permission clearance. I find, as a side note, that rather than standing back and assuming they'd been downloaded from some website while offering no assistance whatsoever in what you wanted or what needs to be done to clear up the questions about them would have been a great help to those of us who don't routinely deal with images. This has been made exceedingly difficult since no one is now in the Austin area and can just drop by and have a chat with the curators and demanding library catalog numbers and weblinks to sources isn't going to give you what you seem to want. Thanks for the assistance. Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:22, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I received an e-mail from the photo curator of the Austin History Center that states "the photos were created by the Austin Police Department but never published." The image is not the work of the United States Government nor is it in the public domain. -Nv8200p talk 04:32, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, how could it be that the photos were created by the Austin Police Department, but aren't in the public domain? The Austin Police Department is a member of the US Government last I checked; namely the executive branch.Chhe (talk) 01:36, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding is the US Federal Government releases images into the public domain, however other branches of government don't. PhilKnight (talk) 19:13, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The APD is not a member of the US Government. -Nv8200p talk 01:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
NV8200p, please explain further why the Austin Police Department isn't a member of the US government. Frankly, this statement of yours seems completely absurd. The Austin Police Department recieves tax dollars for the purpose of enforcing the laws made by the Texas state legislature and congress. Clearly that falls into the domain of the executive branch.Chhe (talk) 18:57, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • And I received an e-mail from the photo curator of the Austin History Center that further states "However, if anyone owns copyright, it would be either us or the Police Department. Neither is likely to have a problem with those photos being up on the web. Plus, because Wikipedia is a non-profit educational website, it is likely that the use fits in the Fair Use guidelines. Please let me know if something more formal is needed." (italics added) I have responded to ask them to send OTRS permissions for usage of the photos. Again, please hold off closing this until the permissions have been obtained. Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:37, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    We don't use images by permission. Ask them to release it to the public domain or under gfdl, or someone will have to come out with a fair use rationale that would justify using the picture of a dead body. --Damiens.rf 21:48, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    There has to be more than a fair use rationale. There has to be critical commentary in the article about the image that makes the image significant to the article. -Nv8200p talk 01:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And one more time because it needs to be said for each image. Is there some reason why you are battling so hard against these particular images? It would be quite nice for you to please wait until the curator sends in the licensing before you reach a conclusion. He may opt to send in a public domain release, the option was presented. I would also suggest that to some degree, no image is significant to the understanding of any given article, although one can certainly illustrate or bolster awareness or understanding of the severity or preparedness or absence or whatever of a given event. Essentially, there comes a point when saying it isn't significant to the understanding of the article becomes an issue of POV, not neutral determination. I'd also tack a thank you in here for Damiens.rf, who offered at least something in the way of constructive help on how to clarify this rather than someone just notifying the library that someone was trying pass off their images as public domain. No one seemed to understand that the ones that were uploaded were obtained even before the library received them as a donation. Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, Mr. Larry Moore (Nv8200p) has changed his reasoning for deletions several times, if one reason gets questioned, he uses another, if that gets questioned...here'e another. His duplicious display of prejudice for the photo's are not consistent. Even his own photo on his user page has different descriptions, one says "being pompous", another "looking (whatever)". He even removed the Houston McCoy photo from a sub-article of the Whitman page, without any discussion. This administrator is an irony. A swaggering texan (small caps intented), who's going to show the world the power of a texan, and the world will have to agree. We've lived with one texan for the past eight years with the same swagger, look where the world is because of it! Let's put this person where he needs to be; anywhere but the Whitman page. Let him copy-vio Blue Bonnets or Travis County parks. In fact, let him create a page and place photos of Hippy Hollow and the people there, where his efforts might be appreciated. Victor9876 (talk) 08:31, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop making personal remarks, and in future comment on content, not on the contributor. PhilKnight (talk) 14:30, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In this instance, he is not a contributor - he is a deconstructionist. Victor9876 (talk) 15:30, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's fascinating. Now, either stop making personal remarks, or I'll block you. PhilKnight (talk) 15:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have received a cc of the permission sent to [email protected] this morning covering the release and use of the four Whitman article related images on this page. Please do not delete and allow this to be properly licensed. Wildhartlivie (talk) 16:00, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:RKo-shirt.jpg[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted as G7 by Ilmari Karonen (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 01:26, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:RKo-shirt.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by ThinkBlue (notify | contribs).
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Viv B.jpg[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted as G7 by Ilmari Karonen (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 01:26, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Viv B.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by ThinkBlue (notify | contribs).
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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