Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2024 February 7

February 7[edit]

File:Virtualinsanityvideo.JPG[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more files. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: relisted on 2024 February 14. ✗plicit 08:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

File:Virtualinsanityvideo.JPG (delete | talk | history | links | logs)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Cerulean sweater speech from The Devil Wears Prada.webm[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more files. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: No consensus -Fastily 01:51, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While this is certainly an iconic scene, I fail to see anything within it that requires a visual or auditory aid for explanation. A simple transcript of the scene should suffice in its place. Alexschmidt711 (talk) 22:50, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The reader's understanding and appreciation of the scene, its importance to the film and its lasting cultural impact, as documented in multiple instances of reliably sourced commentary in the accompanying text, is greatly enhanced by seeing how Meryl Streep performs the speech—her tone, mannerisms and diction—how Anne Hathaway and Emily Blunt react to it, and how the film handles it in editing, blocking and pacing. None of these would be present in cold words on a printed page.

I would further point out that a transcript cannot capture the visual moment that triggers the whole scene, when Andi snickers just a little too loudly at the sight of two seemingly indistinguishable blue belts being contrasted. You can't get that on a transcript.

And since cerulean is key to the whole speech, how can we not show it, on the belts and (importantly) Andi's sweater? Would you have us simply put up a color square? That wouldn't work.

Lastly, are there any other instances of movie scenes discussed in individual sections of articles you can point to where we have posted a transcript of the scene instead of a clip? Daniel Case (talk) 03:31, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I hate to disagree, but the video clip is 107 seconds long. Do you think it should be shorter? If not, I'd be happy to see the clip deleted if it is found noncompliant with ~~WP:NFCC#3a~~. Do you think WP:SAMPLE should apply as well? George Ho (talk) 06:14, 30 January 2024 (UTC); oops, 02:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have as yet no rules for how long a film clip should be, however I don't think the 30-second limit for music samples (which I find problematic by itself in some cases) could really be applied. I took care to include the setup (brief, as noted above), the speech and nothing else. I can't see any reason to shorten it. I don't really see how FUC 3a applies since we are talking about only this one clip in the article at the moment. Daniel Case (talk) 06:19, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops! I didn't realize I mistook "3a" as "3b". Shoulda been WP:NFCC#3b ("Minimal extent of use") instead. George Ho (talk) 02:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's not like that 1:47 is the entirety of a 109-minute film ... by my calculations it's 1.6 percent of the film. A lot less than that 10 percent threshold that SAMPLE sets as a maximum. Daniel Case (talk) 17:40, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think these are bad points, but there doesn't appear to be that much precedent for a scene being included purely because of a performance in it or a visual element that, while something would be lost without it (I did think of seeing the belts looking the same as a possible justification), doesn't add too much that wouldn't be easily explainable I feel. Most of the other scenes have iconic visuals and/or audio (such as bullet time in The Matrix, or Rocky climbing up the steps) that this doesn't have. Even the color of the sweater isn't particularly necessary in the demonstration, McKenna admitted she just needed a fancier word for blue. I can definitely understand wanting to show a performance under fair use but I'm not sure if there is precedent for it, and aspects of the performance demonstrated by visual or auditory aid are only really discussed in one paragraph of the section (the final onekl), although that is probably enough.

However, if a consensus emerges for keeping this scene I can easily accept that, I'm not the rightsholder or anything. Even so, the rationale given isn't quite adequate to explain its fair use, so if the file stays up that should be replaced with a condensed version of what you wrote above. Alexschmidt711 (talk) 22:26, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If we made decisions based purely on whether it's been done before, we'd never do anything. The fair-use policy was written with the idea that it would be able to deal with unprecedented situations. At that time we were mainly concerned with non-free images because the idea of embedding streaming audio and video was ahead of where the technology was. But we knew then that that would not always be true, and indeed almost 20 years later it is not.

To say that a scene would need purely visual elements to justify fair use here is to ignore that it's been the sound era for almost a century and this scene depends a lot on how Meryl Streep voices it.

I am heartened by your willingness to compromise, and of course the sources have more that would justify fair use that I can add (someone, I think, talks about how the way Streep says "cerulean" making it sound like the most sinister thing ever), but didn't because I didn't want the section to take up too much space (I suppose if there were enough sourced commentary, it could merit its own article, perhaps). I am also certainly willing to incorporate much of what I wrote into the fair-use justification. Daniel Case (talk) 01:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I have added my langugage above to the rationale, and some material directly commenting on Streep's performance (The latter actually discusses at great length one of the lines immediately preceding the speech—"Why is no one reaaaa-dy—which I had cut from the video since I wanted it to be just the speech; ironically this means that if we keep, I might want to add a longer version of the clip that includes those lines (not more than 7–10 extra seconds). Daniel Case (talk) 04:47, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - massive section devoted to this scene based on many sources, covering the delivery and specific sweater being discussed ... which are depicted and heard in the scene. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 15:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fastily 02:46, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Although one might argue about the length of the clip, there is significant sourced commentary about the scene itself. It would not be suitable to have a transcript replace this as teh transcript itself would also be non-free. -- Whpq (talk) 03:44, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Pascack Valley High School logo revised.png[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more files. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted as F8 by Fastily (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) A file with this name on Commons is now visible. AnomieBOT ⚡ 02:02, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This file was uploaded under a claim of fair use. I suspect that the file is actually a case of {{PD-ineligible}}, but the shadow/fade on the PV and the color fade across the text is giving me pause. As such, I'm bringing it here; if it is indeed not eligible for copyright protection, moving this to Commons seems the way to go. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:38, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Commons: simple gradients on shapes and text plus shadows aren't copyrightable under US TOO, similar to File:Arkansas map by Sean Pecor.png. —Matrix(!) (a good person!)_{[Citation not needed at all; thank you very much]} 20:01, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

+1 Daniel Case (talk) 04:48, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Harpists on stage (Lewis Cass Technical High School).jpg[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more files. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Explicit (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 01:01, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks to be taken from a film/TV show, uploader has history of image issues. —Matrix(!) (a good person!)_{[Citation not needed at all; thank you very much]} 19:58, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, orphaned with questionable licensing. Salavat (talk) 00:28, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.