Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Texas Tech Red Raiders football seasons/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 18:40, 26 December 2009 [1].

List of Texas Tech Red Raiders football seasons

Nominator(s): NThomas (talk) 19:13, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Featured list candidates/List of Texas Tech Red Raiders football seasons/archive1

I have based this list on the current FLs: List of Alabama Crimson Tide football seasons, List of Maryland Terrapins football seasons, List of Oklahoma Sooners football seasons and List of Virginia Tech Hokies football seasons. I feel it now meets the featured list criteria after a peer review help to clean up several minor problems and I am now nominating the list for FL. NThomas (talk) 19:13, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from KV5

"This is a list of..." - featured lists no longer start in this manner. See recently promoted lists for suggestions.
- The Sooners, Crimson Tide and Terrapins season lists that the nominator mentions above are probably the best examples to use. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:30, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - What applying the same setup that List of Virginia Tech Hokies football seasons has? "This is a list of seasons completed by the Virginia Tech Hokies football team of the..." NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - See WP:WAX. Also, that list was promoted 18 months ago, during which time the criteria have changed. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      - I didn't know about WAX. Thanks for pointing it out. Here's the revision history of that part of the corrected lead.
"The list documents season-by-season records, and conference records from 1932–1956 and 1960–present." - when the first sentence is changed, this one should change also. It's very dry. Also, don't use dashes in prose; when you say "from", it needs to be matched with "to", rather than replacing "to" with a dash.
- Corrected. NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"Football Bowl Subdivision" should be linked here.
- Why? The sentence is talking about the FBS Subdivision not the not the subdivision championship. The link you suggested is about the championship not the subdivision. I did change it though to link to Division I#Football Bowl Subdivision, the only place on Wikipedia that specifically talks about the subdivision. The same thing is done on the FL: Virgina Tech list. NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"wife of the first football coach" - "Easter egg" links like this are discouraged; see WP:EGG. Suggest wife of E. Y. Freeland, the first football coach,
- Corrected. Thanks for the example too. NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"19th most of any university" - anywhere this can be linked to?
- Not that I could find. If a list were to be made, that text would be the best place to link to it though in this list. NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - What about NCAA football bowl records? Also, "19th most" should be 19th-most

Thank you! That article works perfectly. Also, I added the hyphen for -most. NThomas (talk) 19:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

According to that article, Texas Tech is tied with Miami (FL) and Ole Miss at 17th, not 19th. →Wordbuilder (talk) 17:39, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for finding that mistake. NThomas (talk) 19:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the key and in the table, each color needs to be accompanied by a symbol, per WP:ACCESS.
- Done NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In the table headers, there's no reason to have the references on a different line than what they are referencing, and there should not be spaces between references.
- I fixed the spaces but, the overwhelming majority of the college football season FLs that have multiple references do the same thing. Why is this one different? NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - The others are wrong and should be fixed. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 13:47, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - Thanks. It's fixed. NThomas (talk) 19:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In the table, per WP:LINK, each row should be able to stand on its own. Table rows are a listed exception to WP:OVERLINK. Each time you have a conference name, it should be linked.
- Every college football season FL doesn't link to the conference every year. Why would this list be any different? NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Because the MOS says so. It's not as big of an issue here, since this table is not sortable, but why make a reader scroll all the way back up to click a link if they are down near the bottom of the list? KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - Corrected. Thanks. NThomas (talk) 19:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Reference 6 is actually a footnote.
- Organized it. NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since I've never seen them before, I have to ask:

What makes NationalChamps.net and College Football Data Warehouse reliable sources?

Regarding College Football Data Warehouse, see Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Oklahoma Sooners football seasons/archive1. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:21, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I replaced the NationalChamps.net reference with an identical reliable source from College Football Data Warehouse. NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Navbox should contain a link to this article. It doesn't right now, at least not that I can see.
- I changed the font in the navbox to make the link visable. NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Remove bold as an indicator from the table per MOS:BOLD.

Done.

There should be no space between a table entry and its indicator (e.g., a year and its dagger). I suggest superscripting indicators that are at cap height (like daggers) after the spaces are removed to avoid visual crowding. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:34, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what superscripting indicators are. Mind sharing a link? NThomas (talk) 00:47, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we have one. All I mean is using the superscript code tags (<sup> and </sup>) around the daggers and other indicators that are cap height. Superscripting is in the toolbox at the top of the "edit" section as well (the first button containing x². KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:31, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I understand what you're saying now. It does look a lot better with superscript. NThomas (talk) 05:29, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hope these comments help. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 13:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support from KV5 (Talk • Phils); Great work. 12:39, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Check the toolbox; there are a few dead links. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:23, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Replaced, archived, and corrected links. NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Voltin

I think the lead picture could be changed out with one that features action or a team and is a little bit more relevant to the actual teams. I think we can still leave the picture of The Jones as a secondary photo, but I think an action/team shot should be included. There are several very nice photos in the Texas Tech page of the Wiki Commons.
- Added an action shot from Wiki Commons. NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The "Texas Tech Matadors" title in the table is little hard to read with red text on a black background. While I can appreciate including the school colors in the list, I think white text on a black background would be more readable.

You're killing me on that one. That's probably my favorite part of this list... but I agree. Replaced the red text with white. NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Overall I think is a very well put together list. --Voltin (talk) 23:29, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks NThomas (talk) 09:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Voltin (talk) 15:44, 12 December 2009 (UTC). While I am not a contributor to the article, it should be noted that I am a member of WikiProject Texas Tech University and WikiProject Big 12 Conference. Both Wikiprojects' scope include this article.[reply]

Support with the same caveats listed by Voltin. I have not contributed to the article but am a member of the two related WikiProjects. →Wordbuilder (talk) 05:41, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from NMajdan

Comments

charter member in the south division of the Big 12 Conference You have South Division capitalized in the first paragraph, but not the third.

Thanks. NThomas (talk) 20:44, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Red Raiders, coached by Mike Leach since 2000, earned 56 wins from the 2000 through the 2006 season. Seems like a very selective time period. Why was it limited from 2000-2006?

That was what the reference had listed. It was Mike Leach's tenure when the reference was written. At the end of the 2009 season, I'll replace it with a similar sentence with updated numbers via a footnote. NThomas (talk) 20:44, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Refs 15, 24 & 25 need access dates.

15 already did have an access date. 24 and 25 now do. NThomas (talk) 20:44, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

15 did not have an access date, but it looks like you changed out that ref completely. Looks good now.—NMajdan•talk

The template at the bottom does not contain a link to this article.

It does. When viewing the template on a different page, the "Teams" link becomes visible. NThomas (talk) 20:44, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

—NMajdan•talk 14:11, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support.—NMajdan•talk 21:21, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

"Texas Tech has played their home...." - isn't that a mix of singular and plural? Either "have played their" or "has played its"?

I went with singular as Texas Tech is one school. NThomas (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No need to capitalize "Wide" in the image caption.

Done NThomas (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No need to link individual years like 1937. I'm sure global events of that year are more significant than the name change from Matadors to Red Raiders...!

What about linking to 1937 college football season instead? NThomas (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Would be a lot better. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:10, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. NThomas (talk) 19:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"before getting their first" - just don't like "get" maybe achieving? securing? something less clumsy...

I just removed getting all together. I think it flows much better now. NThomas (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"before getting their first postseason win in the 1952 Sun Bowl.[2] Before withdrawing..." - before x 2 - reads repetitively.

Right now after removing the "a total of" from below, it reads: Texas Tech suffered four more bowl losses before their first postseason win in the 1952 Sun Bowl. Before withdrawing from the Border Conference in 1956, the Red Raiders won eight conference championships and one co-championship, the most held by a Border Conference member. what about this instead: ''Texas Tech suffered four more bowl losses before their first postseason win in the 1952 Sun Bowl. The Red Raiders won eight conference championships and one co-championship, the most held by a Border Conference member, before withdrawing from the conference in 1956. NThomas (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"won a total of eight" - any reason for "a total of"?

Nope. Same thing with "getting" before. Removed it. NThomas (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Being a European, I have no idea what a "co-championship" is - could you add a footnote to indicate what this means?

Co- is a prefix that means shared. So it is a shared championship. Does that really need a footnote? NThomas (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I understand what "co" means, but absolutely not one single sport I follow ever "shares" a championship. Ever. So it's odd to me! The Rambling Man (talk) 11:10, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The second image overlaps the top-right of the table (I'm using Safari) so the column headings aren't visible.

What do you suggest to fix it? NThomas (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know but it does need to be fixed. You need a wiki markup wizard to help... The Rambling Man (talk) 11:10, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Where would I look to find the right wiki markup wizard? NThomas (talk) 19:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Any reason why "Champions" and "Co-Champions" are capitalized in your key?

I followed the other FL's keys that I based this list on. The capital letters are fixed now. NThomas (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for appearing dense, but what does T-1st mean? is that 1st=? Tied for first place? It's an notation I've never seen before...

I don't mean to WP:WAX here, but three other FLs similar to this one have T– as their notation for a tie in standings. It may be uncommon but not unheard of. The lists for college football rankings do something similar, (see 2008 NCAA Division I FBS football rankings as an example) they uses "т" beside the teams that share the same standing. If I added a "T–" section to the legend, would that work? NThomas (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's not that I think it's inappropriate, it's just that I don't know what it means. So yes, adding it to the key would be useful. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:10, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. NThomas (talk) 19:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Watch out for those hyphens which slip in from about 1976 onwards in your T-x notation.

Replaced them all. Thanks. NThomas (talk) 00:20, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Don't mix date formats in the references - your ref 21 has a human-readable date - perhaps just convert that to ISO (per ref 15) and I think all will be well.

So just change the "(August 25, 2006)" to "(2006-9-25)"?

Sure. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:10, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. NThomas (talk) 19:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 14:32, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 15:41, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

Images need alt text.

Done. NThomas (talk) 04:41, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"The Red Raiders have made a record 32 bowl game appearances". Which record is this referring to? It's not a national or even conference record, as the lead already says.

Corrected. It now reads: "The Red Raiders have made 32 bowl game appearances..." NThomas (talk) 04:41, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the Division and Ties columns, consider using dashes for the blank cells.

I only used blank cells where the information is not applicable. Dashes are in cells where information is possible but not accumulated. NThomas (talk) 04:41, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note 2 could use a cite.

Done. Added Michigan's record from 2008. NThomas (talk) 04:41, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note 5: "released on November 30 the of that year" Excess word snuck in there. Also, a comma should probably be placed directly after this. Commas could also come after "which are the major components of the BCS formula" and "Texas defeated an unranked Texas A&M team".

Good finds! Thanks. NThomas (talk) 04:41, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Minor point, but the publishers for references 19 and 22 should be made consistent since they both come from the same website.

I wouldn't consider it a minor point. Another good find. Thanks for all your critiques. NThomas (talk) 04:41, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:31, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.