Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/William O'Connell Bradley/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 15:55, 17 August 2010 [1].

William O'Connell Bradley[edit]

William O'Connell Bradley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 17:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Kentucky's first Republican governor, second Republican senator, and the man known as the "Father of the Republican Party in Kentucky". After a recent major rewrite, I believe this article meets the FA criteria. It is already a GA, and I had it informally re-assessed after the rewrite. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 17:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:02, 29 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments:

  • Are the political aspirations of his brother-in-law and nephew really important enough for the lead?
    • I usually try to mention notable relations in the lead. Plus, that first paragraph gets a little short without it.
  • Did he call two special sessions in March 1897?
    • Probably not, but it's not clear, since the information comes from two different sources. Klotter is concerned with the election of a senator while Lucas is concerned with lynching laws. It's more likely that Bradley called one session with both items on the agenda (which he would have been constitutionally-bound to specify) than that he called two separate sessions so close together, but without either source mentioning any other business of the session, it's rather impossible to tell.
  • "trusted that the General Assembly would reimburse him"—did they?
    • This also seems unclear. I only recall two sources mentioning the event. Harrison (the one cited) just states "Governor Bradley ended up borrowing the money from a bank, trusting the General Assembly to reimburse the loan." Klotter also mentions it in Decades of Discord, stating "Governor Bradley borrowed $3,000 from a Frankfort bank, subject to General Assembly approval, and equipped hospital trains to return sick Kentucky soldiers." Neither provides any follow-up.
  • Reference to Wiltz (1963) needs page numbers.
    • Looks to me like all the notes include page numbers. Which footnote(s) are you referring to?
      • Not the notes, but the listing below; it gives the volume (37) but not the pages. Ucucha 15:37, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • Ah. Got it. I have filled this in.
  • The text for the "Further reading" (shouldn't that be "External links"?) is garbled: "scanned books original editions color illustrated".
I've removed this. I didn't add it, and frankly never noticed it before. IMO, it could be considered either Further reading or External links. Makes no difference to me.

Images:

  • File:WilliamO'ConnellBradley.jpg needs evidence that it was published (not just created) before 1923. (It might also be public domain because it was donated to the LoC; not sure of that.)
    • The Harris & Ewing collection copyrights have expired. See here.
      • Can you add that to the file description page (also for the one below)? Ucucha 15:37, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • Done, in both cases.
  • Same for File:Joseph Clay Stiles Blackburn - Brady-Handy.jpg.
    • The Brady-Handy collection copyrights have expired. See here.
  • Also File:Governor Simon B Buckner.jpg, although that one is not in the LoC.
    • As stated in the image description, the author has been dead for more than 70 years. Publication date is irrelevant, if I understand correctly.
      • Sorry, missed that. Ucucha 19:54, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:William O. Bradley Signature.svg should probably state that the original file is PD because it was published in 1916.

Ucucha 10:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    • Connormah has addressed this, I believe. He made the trace.

I think this addresses all of the issues. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 21:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: Generally good, but I have a fair number of issues here.

  • Lede:
Father of the Republican Party in Kentucky. Probably does not need to be sourced if it is backed up in the body, but is there intended relevance to the next sentence? After all, the brother in law ran for gov a decade before Bradley, and the nephew's run presumably had more to do with his dad's than his uncle's.
There is no intended relevance; I have reversed the order of these sentences to make this clear. Not sure the bit about Edwin Morrow's run for governor having more to do with his father than his uncle is accurate, although both Bradley and the elder Morrow were dead by the time the younger Morrow was nominated for governor.
Some mention should be made that Bradley was elected Senator by the legislature in the lede. If you do this, you might be able to split up the ungainly phrase where you explain what the General Assembly is, for example by doing a pipe in the lede paragraph and then just using "General Assembly" without explanation later on.
You're right. What was I thinking when I wrote "the General Assembly, the state legislature"? Ick. Fixed now.
I would strike the mention of factionalism, and focus on the marathon election and the fact that the Republicans were the minority, for purposes of the lede.
Done.
  • Early life
"While Bradley was still young" I am not certain this informs the reader of anything, as youngness is a characteristic universally shared by children around the globe.
Yeah, I really wish I had an age to put here, but I don't.
" he was referred to as "Colonel Bradley"" OK, but do you know for sure that this was the reason they called him Colonel? See article Kentucky Colonel! Not questioning your research, which seems quite good btw (throwing that in after a comment in a recent FAC which irritated me no end).
Yes, the source explicitly states this, although you are quite right to raise the Kentucky Colonel issue as a concern. That is, after all, where Colonel Sanders got his title.
"Despite having no college education, Bradley was allowed to take the bar examination at age eighteen by a special provision of the state legislature.[3] This arrangement was contingent on Bradley's being judged competent by two circuit judges." If we are talking about "reading law" here, this is far from unusual, it still goes on in fact, though the ABA discourages it. You make it sound like a special arrangement that was almost unique to Bradley, I would suspect that few of Kentucky's lawyers in that era went to law school, few of which existed at the time. In the 19th century, probably a majority of lawyers read law. In fact, when I was sworn in in Virginia in 1992, two of the people sworn in with me had "read law". By the way, it will probably be lost in the reshuffle, but "special provision of the state legislature" is probably not the best way of putting things.
Ick. I should have cleaned this up well before now. The special provision was related to his age – twenty-one was the minimum age for someone to take the bar exam according to state law. Memory fails as to whether the exemption was especially for Bradley or for anyone under-aged but judged competent by two circuit court judges. I've clarified this now.
I'm not certain that two "jump aheads" in this section (relatives running for gov, later death of son) are warranted. One, I can see, two is too many and you should pick one, take it out and mention it later. It makes for a confusing timeline.
I've removed the son's death, as it seems less relevant to Bradley's overall life. I can't find any specific reference to how it affected him beyond tremendous grief.
It might be worth mentioning if the Civil War or Reconstruction affected Bradley in any way other than as stated.
If it did, I haven't found it.
  • Early political career
"presidential elector" As Grant did not carry Kentucky, Bradley did not serve as an elector and this should be mentioned.
I've just removed this. It isn't that important.
"Democratic Eighth District" Perhaps "heavily-Democratic Eighth District"?
Sure. That makes sense.
  • Senate. Obviously the Republican candidate wasn't going to win, but was there some specific reason that the Republicans voted for Bradley? I've seen instances of state legislature minorities voting for people as a protest vote, was this such a case?
I suspect so, but the source doesn't state that explicitly. At that point in the state's history, the Republicans could have voted for Humpty Dumpty for all the good it would have done.
  • "nomination to serve as Attorney General of Kentucky in 1879 because of ill health." This language is confusing. I can sift through it and other articles and gather he was offered the Republican nomination to run for AG, but the language is confusing here. Of course if I am wrong, res ipsa loquitur.
More pathetic wording on my part. Hopefully fixed now.
  • Gubernatorial election of 1887
ex-Confederate. A pipe seems in order there, to CSA.
CSA was just linked in the previous sentence about Buckner serving as a Confederate general.
"His platform included proposed improvements in education," As platforms rather inevitably include things that haven't been done yet, suggest "his platform included proposals for ..." BTW, was it his platform, or the party's?
I have adopted your wording tweak. Educational improvements have been ubiquitous in Kentucky campaigns almost from the state's founding (although I suspect his plan was somehow different from Buckner's), and a high protective tariff was a traditional Republican issue in that day, but resource development may have been original to Bradley. In the absence of any clear reference to the subject in the sources, I'm inclined to call it his platform.
The construction of a state penitentiary had caused Kentuckians to leave the state looking for opportunities elsewhere? The mind boggles.
Hmm. Hadn't thought to read it like that. Clarified.
"state senator Albert Seaton Berr" Caps. It's his title, appearing right before his name.
Done.
  • The Democratic Henderson Gleaner was also critical, opining "We should be ashamed of ourselves."[20] The obvious question is "Why?"
They agreed with much of what Bradley, Berr, and others were saying about Democratic mismanagement.
  • "President Benjamin Harrison appointed Bradley Minister to Korea in 1889, but Bradley declined the appointment," Did Harrison nominate him, and send the nomination to the Senate, or did he receive a recess appointment? If the former, you should probably say "nominate", unless the Senate confirmed him before Bradley made known his refusal.
Not sure about the timeline, but "nominate" works better.
  • "He was never found." Perhaps he went to pursue penitentiary opportunities in another state? Jk, but can you source this?
Done.
  • Ditto, 1895
  • "In his opening statement," Perhaps opening campaign speech, unless he was helping out his dad with a criminal defense case.
Done.
  • "the national depression" I would pipe these words to Panic of 1893. By the way, your explanation of the free silver situation is decent considering the limited space you can devote to the question, but if you can say something about how free silver would affect the money supply, it would be a little more understandable for people who are going to stare at that 16 to 1 figure.
I've piped the link you suggest, but I'm afraid what I've said about the silver question is about all I understand of it myself!
  • Legislative session of 1896
"65 votes once, leaving him just two votes shy of election." By my fumbling math, you've just said there were 138 legislators. Wouldn't he have needed 70 votes?
I believe absent legislators (who wouldn't figure into the votes necessary for a majority) may account for the discrepancy, but I can't say for sure.

More later.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:38, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Other proposed compromise candidates ..." Perhaps cut down the list to the notable people; given that this does not affect Bradley directly, it's too long.
No problem with that.
If all of the Assembly's attention was directed at the Senate election (by the way, hoping we can see an article on that!), how did they pass the reform house, etc. legislation)?
Shouldn't have said all, but undoubtly the vast majority.
"Bradley appointed Andrew T. Wood..." this sentence needs work. Some thought might be given to cutting back the Senate story a bit here, though it is interesting, as Bradley is a peripheral character, mostly.
I think I've helped the sentence a little bit. Part of me does want to cut back this section, but part of me feels like it is necessary to put Bradley's actions in context.
  • Advocacy for blacks:
"racially motivated lynchings" as opposed to?
Folks can be lynched simply because a mob thinks they are guilty of something. It doesn't have to be racial.
"squad of state troops" The similarity of the term to "state troopers" makes me think you might want to go with "state militia".
Kentucky didn't have state troopers until Earle C. Clements abolished the Kentucky Highway Patrol in favor of the Kentucky State Police in the late 1940s, but fair enough. I've changed it.
" Bradley's office was flooded with requests to intervene on Dinning's behalf" Ambiguous, unclear if the requestors wanted to intervene or wanted Bradley to intervene.
Clarified.
"After being freed, Dinning fled to Indiana " Was he being pursued? The trial was in Louisville, right? How much fleeing was called for? The city is on the Ohio River.
"Fled" may be too strong, but Dinning clearly feared retribution if he remained in Kentucky, and this motivated his removal from the state. I've changed "fled" to "relocated".
"1897 compilation Biographical sketches of prominent negro men and women of Kentucky.". Is this a book? Surely it should be capitalized (so he was the first black governor of Kentucky ... probably voters on both sides agreed.)
Just copied and pasted from WorldCat, which doesn't always get the capitalization right. And yes, I suspect you are right about both sides believing Bradley was the first black governor of Kentucky, and in a much more prominent sense, I would think, than Bill Clinton being "the first black president of the U.S.", as some claimed. :)
  • Other matters
" when the legislature convened in 1898, the Democratic majority in both houses was overwhelming." Perhaps a brief mention of the 1897 legislative elections and what role, if any, Bradley paid in it would be in order. I assume his policies were an issue?
Tapp would be the most likely source of such information, but he is surprisingly silent on the issue, mentioning only that "The regular session of the General Assembly convened January 4, 1898, with the Democrats approaching the old time majorities."
"Bryan" It might be worth a mention that the Democratic party had become decidedly bimetallist by then, and even toss in a mention of the cross of gold.
Again, this subject isn't my strong suit, and I don't know what the "Cross of Gold" refers to.
"attempted to recover the costs and turn a profit " There's an implication here that this was unauthorized; most if not all turnpike roads were chartered by the state.
On the contrary, the state was heavily indebted already and was glad for the turnpike companies to make such an investment.
Spanish-American War. The conditions were notoriously bad for everyone, not just Kentucky; more soldiers died in Tampa than in Cuba. I don't suggest that you mention this, but there may be articles you could pipe to.
A quick glance through Category:Spanish-American War reveals only United States Army beef scandal which may be relevant, but I'm not sure exactly how to introduce it.
  • Goebel Election Law
"President Pro Tempore" pipe here note that pro tem or pro tempore is lower case and italicized.
So it is. Fixed.
"non-committal" I'd lose the hyphen if you keep the word. I understand this word to mean that they have not announced their stance. Is this what you meant?
I mean both that they hadn't announced their stance, and some wouldn't do so when explicitly asked about it. I deleted the hyphen.
"on the defense" Surely, "on the defensive"?
I've heard it both ways, but I have no problem with "defensive".
"As leader of the party," Why was Goebel leader of the party? He wasn't the nominee yet.
With all of the elected officers in the executive branch being Republicans, Goebel was the highest-ranking elected Democrat as president pro tem of the senate.
"BAYONET Rule" generally, we do not go all caps regardless of the original, but for one word, I'm content merely to point out the MOS and leave it to your judgment.
Wasn't aware that the MOS made such an exception for all caps in the original. I've reduced it to standard capitalization, as I rather detest all caps myself.

Later life

I really do not think you should divide the 1899 election story between two sections.
OK, I think the headings as I've adjusted them will work.
I imagine that Bradley was not the only seconder of TR's renomination?
Maybe not, but others are not mentioned in the sources I have, which is understandable since they all focus on Bradley/Kentucky.
Beckham's second term. Some explanation is needed here: If Kentucky governors were not eligible to be re-elected, than why was Bradley not to be renominated?
Ah, you are a close reader. In 1900, Beckham succeeded to the governorship upon Goebel's death (subject to his eventual court victory). Pursuant to the state constitution, a special election was then held because Goebel died less than two years into his term. Beckham prevailed in the election and served until the expiration of his (originally Goebel's) term in 1903. Beckham declared as a candidate for the 1903 election, and a court upheld his right to seek the office because he had not been elected to a full term previously, but was simply serving out the remainder of Goebel's. I'm not sure why the court didn't consider the special election sufficient to consider Beckham elected as governor and thus ineligible for re-election; the sources I've seen don't go into that much detail. As none of this is directly related to Bradley, I had hoped to gloss over it in the interest of staying on topic. And I'd have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids and your dog! :) How would you propose to treat this in the article?
Numeric Congresses: each Congress has an article about it, should be pipes.
Yep. Laziness on my part. Fixed.
Charles W. Fairbanks as the Republican nominee, Perhaps "for the Republican nomination" would be better
Indeed. Changed.
Do we know why he chose not to run for reelection? Did the 17th Amendment play a part? He'd have had to face the people.
Thatcher attributes it to failing health, but he doesn't specifically say what ailment or ailments he was suffering from.
The article would round off well with some mention of reaction in Kentucky to his death. Any legacy, things named for him, monuments?
I don't really have anything of that nature. You'd think that someone so transformational would have a lot of stuff named for him, but I haven't found anything.

I don't know if I can support without further copyediting but will wait and see.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:39, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for a really thorough review. Let me know what areas still need attention. Acdixon (talk • contribs • count) 18:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for taking my suggestions in such good humor; I will probably not have time to review it again until Wednesday but will take a second look then.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Also, have you looked at the NY Times archives? I saw a number of articles, mostly having to do with his time as governor, and articles before 1923 are free.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:51, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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