Jump to content

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1 Wall Street/archive1

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 12 November 2024 [1].

1 Wall Street

[edit]
Nominator(s): Epicgenius (talk) 14:23, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about yet another building on Wall Street in New York City. This time, it's an office skyscraper that was built in 1929–1931 as a bank headquarters before being converted to residential use. The building has some notable architectural features including a curtain-like limestone facade, a polygonal red room with glittering mosaic tiles, and (originally) an executive lounge with a triple-height ceiling. Even the site, at the foot of Wall Street, was once deemed one of the most valuable sites worldwide. The structure may not be the tallest building in the area, or even on the street, but in my view at least, it's one of New York City's lesser-known Art Deco masterpieces.

This page became a Good Article four years ago after a GAN review by SurenGrig07 and Hog Farm, for which I am very grateful. After some more recent copyedits, I think the page is up to FA quality. I look forward to all comments and feedback. Epicgenius (talk) 14:23, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SC prose

[edit]

12 days and no visitors?? I'll start the ball rolling shortly. - SchroCat (talk) 06:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done to the start of History. More to come. Overall, an enjoyable read, with not much for me to pick up on. - SchroCat (talk) 07:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing...

  • I fixed this yesterday when I was addressing your first point.
Epicgenius (talk) 13:37, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Bank of New York": as you refer to BNY shortly afterwards, this should be "Bank of New York (BNY)"
  • "BNY Mellon opened a museum on the 10th floor in 1998": I though the BNY/Mellon merger and renaming was in 2006 or 07? I'd be inclined to keep the name as "BNY" for all references pre-merge, then move to "BNY Mellon" post merge (with a passing reference to the name change)
  • "Additionally, in 2007,": I don't think the "additionally" adds anything here – it makes it look like a forgotten add-on.

That's my lot. A long, but interesting read that I enjoyed going through. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 10:10, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again for the review @SC. I've addressed the rest of your issues now. Epicgenius (talk) 13:37, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review: pass

[edit]

I'll pick up on this too. - SchroCat (talk) 06:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Check the capitalisation on the titles – there are some lower case in there that need to be capitalised (FNs 12, 63 are the ones in the first column that caught my eye, but these are examples only and there are probably more)
  • Ditto there are some caps that should be lower case (FNs 8, 34,43, 97 are the ones in the first column that caught my eye, but these are examples only and there are probably more)
  • FN24 " Skyscraper Style :" Rogue space before the colon
  • Wider searches show no major sources overlooked, and the coverage seems to be adequate for FAC requirements

- SchroCat (talk) 08:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the source review SC. I'll fix the ref titles on Monday. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:31, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think I've fixed all the remaining titles now. The tool I was using didn't consistently capitalize or lowercase some conjunctions, so I changed these manually. Epicgenius (talk) 13:37, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi SchroCat, how is the source review looking now? Gog the Mild (talk) 16:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry - this dropped off my watchlist. Passed the source review. - SchroCat (talk) 17:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review: Pass

[edit]

Prose review by Generalissima

[edit]

Very solid piece. I went through and fixed some out of order cites, and wasn't able to find anything errant or out of place - so support from me. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 23:28, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Hurricanehink

[edit]

Support. I figured I'd review since I have an FAC of my own.

  • "1 Wall Street (also known as the Irving Trust Company Building, the Bank of New York Building, and the BNY Mellon Building) is a primarily residential skyscraper at the intersection of Broadway and Wall Street in the Financial District of Lower Manhattan in New York City, New York, U.S. " - that's a lot for the first sentence. I get including the other names, but I think the "primarily residential" part could be mentioned later, since so much of the first sentence already talks about the business names for the building. Maybe also simplify the location? The existing featured article, 23 Wall Street, has it as such:
"23 Wall Street (also known as the J.P. Morgan Building) is a four-story office building in the Financial District of Manhattan in New York City, at the southeast corner of Wall Street and Broad Street. "
I have reworded this bit, moving the exact location into the second paragraph of the lead. (The previous location was imprecise. It wasn't just at the intersection of Broadway and Wall Street, it occupies a full city block, and these streets are only two of the four streets that surround the block.) Epicgenius (talk) 00:56, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "On the lower stories are narrow windows with mullions" - this sort of sentence might be difficult to understand to a non-English reader. "Windows" is the subject of the sentence, but here "On the lower stories are" is how the sentence begins.
  • "The original portion of the building and its Red Room are designated city landmarks, and the structure is a contributing property to the Wall Street Historic District, a National Register of Historic Places district." - this seems like an afterthought, but perhaps add the year it became designated as landmarks? That would contrast better with it being ignored.
  • "There are also five basement levels under the original structure, three of which were below sea level." - small point, but are/were those basement levels still below sea level? The past tense "were below sea level" just seems striking compared to most of the article being in present tense.
  • "The top stories of the annex (completed in the 2020s)" - we're in the 2020s, but people in the future might read that and think plausibly that the event might not happen for another five years (2029). When were the top stories completed?
  • You might want to indicate somewhere that all currency figures are in the original year's USD, like in a note or something. I noticed one spot where you don't indicate the year - "which added $40,000 to the construction cost"
  • "An air-conditioning system was installed at 1 Wall Street in 1953."
  • "at which point it was 85% occupied" - minor point, but the rest of the article says the word "percent"
  • "A new entrance was also constructed on Broadway, with a design based on one of Walker's unrealized plans for the building,[43] and five stories were added to the southern annex." - the last part feels like an add-on, but five additional stories sounds a lot more significant than a new entrance. Unless I'm reading something wrong here.
  • Any more news/history since May? I did a Google news search and didn't find anything, but felt it worth asking.

All in all, a great read. Lemme know if you have questions about my comments. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:17, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the feedback @Hurricanehink. I'll respond to these comments over the next few days. – Epicgenius (talk) 19:54, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again for the comments. I think I have now addressed all of them. Epicgenius (talk) 15:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the quick replies! Good job on this one. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:53, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the support, I appreciate it. Also, I just noticed that you linked your FAC above - I didn't notice it before but can definitely take a look over the next few weeks. – Epicgenius (talk) 16:37, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from PMC

[edit]

I'm shocked to see you writing about another building in New York. Comments within the week :) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:32, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking up the review, @PMC. Take as much time as you need ;) – Epicgenius (talk) 16:40, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I lied, but eight days is pretty close :P

Lead & Site
  • I've got 27 instances of "contain" on a ctrl+F (well, 26, I removed one just now)
  • "A 36-story annex to the south was designed by successor firm Voorhees, Walker, Smith, Smith & Haines and built between 1963 and 1965." having now read a little further into Architecture, this isn't quite correct - it was 28 stories when they built it. The expansion to 36 was only in 2019.
  • "The facade, made of limestone" - could simplify to "The limestone facade", but only a mild suggestion
  • Para 2 in the lead is almost entirely sentences like "The X has Y. The Z has X and Y. The Thing has Thing." the prose could stand to be livened up a little, if possible
  • "After 1 Wall Street's residential conversion" - this comes before the actual mention of the residential conversion in para 3, making it a bit confusing. Also, "After...have contained" is grammatically off. Could probably solve both issues at once with something like "In 2023, the upper stories were renovated into 566 condominium apartments."
  • Harry Macklowe - who?
  • "despite initially remaining ignored" - by whom? Until when? What changed?
    • Basically, mid-20th-century architectural critics largely ignored the building, but it did receive some commentary in a few sources from 1975, 1987, and 2001. Honestly, I don't know the reason for this. Epicgenius (talk) 00:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last 3 sentences of para 2 for Site feel out of order. I might revise to something like "Under municipal law...revert to the government of New York City. When 1 Wall Street was built, its main occupant Irving Trust embedded small metal plaques to delineate the boundaries of its lot to preclude such a seizure." This also removes a touch of redundancy
Architecture
Architecture - Form & facade through Features
Architecture - Red Room and lobby to end
  • Hildreth Meière - who?
  • "as a reception room" for the bank I'm assuming?
  • "In addition, " not sure this is doing much here
  • The measurements might fit better in para 2, which seems to focus more on physical details like shape; para 1 is all about how it was designed and what for
  • "Although the building..." the "although" makes it seem like this was done reluctantly despite the crash, while the cited source says it was done "Because of the collapse" in order to make themselves look successful
    • From reading the sources, I was under the impression that the crash would have restricted the bank's ability to use ornate materials. However, I think you're right about this. I've switched around the sentences. Epicgenius (talk) 15:35, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Feels odd to go from the color scheme of the mosaics, to lightened tiles, and back to color scheme with the gold abstract bits
  • "The remainders of the walls" probably should be "rest of the walls" instead, but if you want to keep remainder, it should be singular I think
  • "The ceiling had an allegorical painting" I thought the ceiling had mosaics. Was the painting tiled over, making this correctly past tense? Or is there something else going on
  • "After 1 Wall Street's residential conversion, there have been" - "after" doesn't work with "have been". You could sub since for after and keep "have been", or keep after and sub "were" for "have been"
  • "are designed" should be past
  • "Other apartments included model units" it's not entirely clear what this means
  • "There are also amenities" - this reads oddly because we're going from discussing individual units straight to general amenities. I would revise to something like "Amenities for residents include..." or similar. That would have the bonus of making the following sentence ("The building also contains...") feel less repetitive
  • Is One Works separate from the "communal spaces with kitchens, phone booths, AV equipment, and printers"?
  • Entire section about the vault is past tense, implying it's no longer there - any confirmation or details about its final disposition?
History
  • Basically no notes till "A 10-inch (250 mm) strip of land..." - what?? do we know why he leased this, or what kind of "structure" he built? So weird.
  • "founded in 1851, had merged with numerous other banks in preceding years" - possibly I'm just a beer in, but wording kind of implies that the bank merged in the years before being founded. Maybe "Since its founding in 1851, Irving Trust had merged..."?
  • "outgrown its offices in" did it have these offices in succession as it merged? Like it moved from A -> B -> C and finally into 1 Wall Street? Or was it one entity scattered through 3 buildings that then consolidated into 1 Wall St?
  • You could merge the sentence that starts "The initial plans..." with the subsequent sentence for less redundancy
  • "Walker and his associate ... Smith and Meière..." these two sentences about the Red Room are tacked on to the end of para 1 in Construction, but they feel more like Planning to me, since they're about the design process
  • "Timekeepers and auditors checked employees' attendance, as well as job runners..." Is this particularly unusual? Otherwise it just feels like details about routine stuff that could be omitted
  • Why does footnote [vi] not have a dollar sign?
  • "Fiduciary Trust Company of New York also moved" cut also; it implies that some other bank moved to the 30th floor as well before it
  • "Macklowe initially planned...and he planned" in same sentence
  • "In addition, the Red Room..." can ditch the "in addition"
  • "Five stories were added to the southern annex" if the annex was 28 stories when it was built, and no other stories were ever built, where does the final number of 36 come from? ;_; what is the truth Epic
  • "The Printemps store was to use the Red Room." - "was" makes it sound like it fell through, but it sounds like maybe it just hasn't happened yet?
Impact
  • I'm not entirely sure about the Clute quote, especially the second portion. I got a snippet view of the source and it doesn't really help with the context.
    • I interpreted the quote as saying that the facade was little more than a skin, rather than an integral part of the structural framework. Clute doesn't say this, but it's akin to draping a blanket over a box - the blanket doesn't hold up the walls of the box, it merely covers the box. Epicgenius (talk) 16:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "There was also praise for what Stern characterized as "Walker's only completed skyscraper"." this sentence is odd. It renders the praise in the passive voice (who praised it? when?) and also ties it to Stern's characterization in a way that I don't think fits, unless the praise is directly related to it being a completed skyscraper. Since all this stuff seems to be post-mid-century, I might say something like "The building began to be reappraised in the 1970s" or "Some later critics have praised the building".

That's all I have for now. I'll give it another look after changes and see how I fare. Cheers! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments. I'll take a stab at these tomorrow. – Epicgenius (talk) 23:29, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PMC, thanks for the comments. I've addressed the points you've raised so far. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay Epic! I cleared the ping and my brain was like "yeah we're done here right". I'm a support. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/1_Wall_Street/archive1&oldid=1257049635"