I assert there was not a consensus to "keep" as only one editor posited a GNG claim; it's unclear if the other made a NPOL argument or INHERITED. The lack of keep rationales seems to point to a delete outcome. Chris Troutman (talk)19:21, 20 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak endorse or if you want, weak overturn to no consensus. There was not a consensus to delete. Being posthumously declared king is arguably ANYBIO1, and while no one appealed to that, it was the gist of what those arguing keep were saying. I saw this on the first close and thought NC would be a better option, because Chris' best argument was the verifiability claim (WP:DEL7), which was slightly addressed, but participants didn't come to a conclusion on. Why weak endorse? The outcome is the same so I don't see the point in overturning to NC, but wouldn't object to it. I also think it'd be reasonable to hold a merge discussion or boldly redirect it and see where that goes. I don't see a consensus to delete in that AfD, however. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:42, 20 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Endorse -
Some background: I closed this AfD as keep, then at the request of Chris troutman I reopened & relisted as it was a non-admin closure. It was then closed as keep by the admin Kudpung.
Note: the article which was originally titled Lý Thuần An has been changed to an alternate romanisation of Li Chun'an.
Subject: The subject is a chinese merchant and politician who lived in the 9th century, he was the son of a prominent 5 dynasties period official and father of emperor Lý Công Uẩn, the founder of a Vietnamese dynasty. (Note: A dynasty is roughly what we would call a country or state, an 'official' is the equivalent of prime minster or cabinet minister/senator, however they hold the position for life.) After his death, his son, then the emperor, granted him the rank of 'King', although he had not been one in his lifetime.
Sources: The subject is discussed in two reliable sources which Wikipedians have been able to read. The Chinese official history confirms his existence, as do several reliable western works cited in the article. Other sources are cited in the article, which I have not read. Due to the lack of people who speak Chinese and Vietnamese, finding more sources is unlikely at this stage.
Claims to notability.
A. WP:NPOL Criterion 1. As a politician who held a national post equivalent to transport minister.
B. WP:GNG With two reliable sources, this deceased person from a time-period in antiquity meets the general notability guideline.
C. WP:ANYBIO Criterion 1. as the recipient of a highest honor bestowed by the leader of an independent state. This award was both well known and significant, the award of which is still known 1100 years later.
Endorse We don't judge arguments simply based on whether BOLDED links are used, and none of the keep !votes were sufficiently contrary to existing policy or common sense such that they would have had to be discounted by any admin. A no consensus close would have also been well within the realm of admin discretion. Jclemens (talk) 03:08, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Endorse No acceptable argument for deletion was ever presented. Presumably the nom. was on the basis of very scanty information for historical personage., and that is alweays been considered not justification to delete--in this or in any other encyclopedia. DGG ( talk ) 05:19, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
because it passes one of the presumptive bio ctcriteriaieria. "presumptive" means that it imeets it unlelss you can provide evidence that there are no sources discussing it. DGG ( talk ) 06:50, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Endorse. Could have been closed as "no consensus". Too many argued "keep" and "merge" !votes for "delete" to have been a reasonable close. I note that notability is far less a test for 1000 year old topics, verifiability is basically enough, unless there is a modern promotion angle. Short of it being deleted as a hoax, or lacking reliability, or being puffed by some modern movement, I don't see any article like this being deleted. Options to Merge remain on the table. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:49, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Endorse. SmokeyJoe is exactly right about notability of 1000 year old topics. In today's internet-everything world, even the most banal and meaningless things get enough coverage to eke by WP:GNG, which is why wikipedia has turned into crapopedia. Anything from 1000 years ago which was documented sufficiently that we can find evidence of it now, surely meets our standard. -- RoySmith(talk)14:00, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.
