The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:merge (although there is currently nothing left to merge) (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:12, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Griqualand Women have never existed as a team; the team was called Griqualand West, and was renamed Northern Cape in 2015, so all players that have played for the team can just be categorised in the Northern Cape category. Mpk662 (talk) 15:55, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom, the team was renamed.--Mvqr (talk) 12:09, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 10:59, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This category was emptied before this discussion could be closed. LizRead!Talk! 01:26, 17 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:withdrawn. ✗plicit 03:50, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale:rename to plural, the category is mainly in use as a set category while the title suggests a topic category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:11, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - if the "category is mainly in use as a set category", it is partly because you have cleared out topical entries. Category:Gardens in English Landscape Garden style should be set up as 2 sub-cats, one for those in the British Isles (or split to England, Wales etc) and one for foreign gardens allegedly in the style. There are numerous articles that can fill up the existing topical cat. Johnbod (talk) 14:29, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The only topic article in the category was and still is French landscape garden. All other topic articles are in the category being discussed below, and the articles were already there, I did not move them there. Splitting the category to gardens in England, fair suggestion, I have just done that, but that would not be a reason to oppose anyway. On the contrary by that suggestion you are agreeing that it is being used as a set category. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:39, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
a) this is not a topic article, it is a biography hence part of a set of biographies; b) I said, "all other topic articles are in the category being discussed below, and the articles were already there, I did not move them there." and that is correct as it stands. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:51, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Huh?? Clearly an article on a "style" should contain, unless removed to sub-cats, things relevant to that style, whether works, people or forms etc. You are doing a clear mis-service to the reader by shunting them off to a general category, usually the wrong one, and removing the natural category readers would expect. Please stop this. Johnbod (talk) 15:02, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, that makes sense. The first is a rename of the category discussed below, the second already exists and the third is a rename of the category here (which I am fine with too). And then we need Category:English Landscape Garden style as a new parent category containing these three subcats as well as articles like French landscape garden. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:38, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In other words, you are now opposing your own proposal. You might be clearer about that (below also). Why is it a "new parent category"? It is the existing one. I agree with Peterkingiron. Johnbod (talk) 18:02, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The tree needs not just "designers" but figures like Thomas Whately who were purely writers or critics of the style. Johnbod (talk) 18:13, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I am not contradicting my own proposal, Category:English Landscape Garden style still is a set category containing gardens.Thomas Whately is another example that would not fit any of the three subcategories but does fit the new parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:44, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm totally confused. Category:English Landscape Garden style is only "a set category containing gardens" because some idiot decided to turn it into one some years ago, and you have moved other stuff out more recently. What is the "new parent category" if not Category:English Landscape Garden style. We need a category that fits Thomas Whately, and that category is, yes, Category:English Landscape Garden style. Can you explain your thinking, which doesn't seem to align with that of Peterkingiron or me. The majority of the contents have already been removed (by you) to Category:English gardens in English Landscape Garden style. Set up Scottish & continental subcants & there will be nothing left but the subcats, and the writers. Unlike you I won't do drastic purges while a cfd is ongoing, but the way ahead is clear. Johnbod (talk) 21:01, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think ultimately we want the same thing. Just our point of departure is different. I started with the current situation, noting that the category is now used as a set category, and thus should be renamed. You started with how you would like it to be irrespective of the current situation. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:05, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I started, & have stuck with, the simplest way to get things right. Let the reader decide how your nominations here & below match your latest thinking! Johnbod (talk) 04:42, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:withdrawn. ✗plicit 03:50, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale:rename to singular, the category is mainly in use as a topic category while the title suggests a set category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:10, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Good argument by OP. Srijanx22 (talk) 08:40, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The scope of this category was changed without discussion years ago by this edit to read: " This category is for the garden elements and features used in the 18th and 19th century English Landscape Garden and English Landscape Park, and the subsequent French landscape garden styles. / For the actual gardens see: Category:English Landscape Garden style." All the contents relate to the English landscape garden, and the category should be merged to that category. If there is a need for a Category:Landscape garden, let that be set up separately. Quite what it would contain I don't know- the term is pretty vague. Landscape garden just redirects to English landscape garden, which is pretty dubious in my view, but there is no need to repeat the categories under a different name. Landscape gardener redirects to Landscape architecture. We need to split off a "gardens" category here, for which see above. Johnbod (talk) 14:41, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, not a rename, a merge. Johnbod (talk) 14:48, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I do not follow this. In the discussion above you seem to be ok with a topic category and two set subcategories and here you want to merge them? Marcocapelle (talk) 14:56, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the top category should be the existing Category:English Landscape Garden style. "Landscape garden" is a much broader and vaguer term - mostly covering C20th+ work I'd think. I doubt we have enough content to sustain a category just called Category:Landscape garden, without including every garden everywhere that has lots of landscaping, or uses what was already there. Johnbod (talk) 17:42, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ok I am fine with renaming to Category:English Landscape Garden style too. But the set category (being discussed above) that currently has this name should then clearly be renamed to something else. It is not helpful if you keep opposing in that discussion - if you do not agree with the proposed name just provide an alternative name. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:36, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As I said many times, the other should keep its existing name of Category:English Landscape Garden style, and this category should be merged into it (or its subs). If you think either Category:Landscape gardens or Category:Landscape garden are useful categories, please say clearly exactly what you think they should contain. What is "not helpful" is for you to propose renaming as something else the only category name in the group that worked. A distinct French landscape garden style is a pretty dubious concept, btw, certainly in English, and I think even in French. See how few gbooks hits it gets by no means all referring to the same thing. About the most reputable book in the first two pages says "The French landscape garden that emerged in the 18th century is variously known as the jardin anglais, jardin à l'anglaise, the jardin paysager, and the jardin pittoresque. These terms are not necessarily conterminous, ..." Not a suitable term for a category, imo. Johnbod (talk) 17:45, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I did not say we need a French category, I am only saying we need to rename the already existing topic category above. When that happens we can move article French landscape garden to the topic category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:32, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, that makes sense. The first is a rename of the category discussed here (which I am fine with too), the second already exists and the third is a rename of the category above. And then we need Category:English Landscape Garden style as a new parent category containing these three subcats as well as articles like French landscape garden. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:39, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
