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March 25

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Category:Political corruption in the United States

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: No rename. Timrollpickering (talk) 09:35, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Political corruption in the United States to Category:Public corruption in the United States
Nominator's rationale: Rename. This category should be renamed to reflect a slightly broader purpose. "Public" is better than "political" because there are some public officials, e.g. judges and employees of independent agencies, who arguably cannot properly be described as "political" but can still very much be guilty of corruption. Savidan 21:27, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:LGBT Russian Jews

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering (talk) 09:45, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Category:LGBT Russian Jews (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete as per WP:OC#EGRS. Nymf hideliho! 18:44, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:LGBT people of Russian descent

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering (talk) 09:45, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Category:LGBT people of Russian descent (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete as per WP:OC#EGRS. Nymf hideliho! 18:42, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American pornographic film actors of Jewish descent

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering (talk) 09:42, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Category:American pornographic film actors of Jewish descent (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete as per WP:OC#EGRS. Nymf hideliho! 18:40, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American pornographic film actors of Russian-Jewish descent

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Upmerged & delete. Timrollpickering (talk) 09:44, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose upmerging Category:American pornographic film actors of Russian-Jewish descent to all of its parent cats
Nominator's rationale: A quintuple? intersection category of unlikely value. LeSnail (talk) 17:51, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:LGBT American people of Nicaraguan descent

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Upmerge & delete. Timrollpickering (talk) 09:47, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose upmerging Category:LGBT American people of Nicaraguan descent to all of its parent cats.
Nominator's rationale: Strange triple intersection. I don't see why this intersection is more notable than other possibilities. LeSnail (talk) 17:48, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Franklin Dam

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep & purge. Timrollpickering (talk) 09:37, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Franklin Dam (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: *Delete per WP:SMALLCAT and WP:OC. It is mostly about people associated with the Franklin Dam and therefore a case of overcategorisation. There is a dire need for a Franklin Dam case article (I created a redir) due to the importance of the topic. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 06:59, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Er, if you'd actually looked in the category, you would surely have noticed Commonwealth v Tasmania, which is a category member. Orderinchaos 07:08, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but there is a need to tie all the articles together. I chose that name based on google searches. A descriptive title such as Franklin Dam controversy is probably better. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 18:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The reasons given don't appear to correspond with the actual situation - I'm not seeing a case for overcategorisation by having this particular category - I'd agree if there was only cause for 2 or 3 category members. Yes, most of the components are people associated with the development. But they were important to it (Franklin Dam, of course, is a constructed feature, not a natural one, so those involved with its construction should be noted) but that's no different to many other categories on many subjects. Orderinchaos 07:08, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • strong Keep - the category is another difficult name - the dam was never built for a start. the opposition to the proposed dam the subsequent political fallout in tasmania for years after was significant, so of course the category is mostly associated with the people who either supported the proposed dam or opposed it and the subsequent failure of the tasmanian government and the hydro to build it against.. hard to imagine whether the nominator knows anything about tasmanian state politics - smallcat and oc are misnomers - the potential expansion of this category is vast as the equivalent of over 3 different governments of tasmania rose or fell in the issues surrounding the proposed dam, with significant ramifications for tasmanian-commonwealth elations, as well as affecting the whole tasmanian population due the the referendum SatuSuro
The existence of the category or not is in no way related to whether the dam was built or not. A category is to aid the readers of WP to navigate through the millions of articles. What you are trying to do is to use a category to do what it cannot. You are trying to to make it do what only an article can do. Assigning a bunch of articles to a category does not give a reader any impression of what you want to acheive. And please assume good faith. I am sufficiently familiar with Tasmanian environmental issues to make a judgement here. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 18:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Orderinchaos and SatuSuro. I don't see this as a case of SMALLCAT or overcategorisation for the reasons that they have laid out. Jenks24 (talk) 12:19, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. There are seven bio articles in the category. If they are removed it brings the number down to five, and at least one of those remaining does not belong in the category leaving a total of four. That sounds like SMALLCAT to me. So you may ask why the bio articles don't belong in Category:Franklin Dam. Take the example of Bob Hawke. Have a look at the categories assigned to the page. Notice something? Yes, Category:Franklin Dam is the odd one out. So why assign Category:Franklin Dam to Bob Hawke and not the hundreds of other things that he was involved in? Because That Is Not How It Is Done!. Imagine the mess things would be if that is how it was done. Oh, I forgot, there is a huge chunk of WP on which that is how it is done... Anyway, to be serious, over-categorisation is a is a big problem on WP. It pollutes the articles an the categories and makes it a less useful navigation system. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 18:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - quoting above Anyway, to be serious, over-categorisation - it simply is not over-categorisation - either Franklin Dam or Lake Pedder - the fact that the categories are not fuller or expanded to illustrate the function of those categories is a combination of the relative quiet on the Tasmanian article front - some talk pages in Tasmanian articles have 1 year gaps if not longer - simply to wander through valid categories and dump them here in CFD is in itself misguided - few if any Australian editors ever seem to venture here (despite Lieftings careful notification at individuals talk pages which is a genuine plus) - to go from the interaction between self and liefting is in itself an inadequate summary of the issues (it is clear from our positions that further input should be solicited) - it should have gone to the Australian noticeboard first - but again the number of active editors with sufficient knowledge or understanding is drying up by the day... SatuSuro 00:29, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Most of the articles now included in the category should be removed from this category, whether or not the category is deleted. For most of them, it is overcategorization and not central to their notability. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:55, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment -- The inclusion of politicians (such as Premiers) who had some involvement with the controvery seems to me rather too like performace by performer categorisation. The fact that a person is linked from the article does not necessarily mean that the person belongs in a category. The dam project was no doubt notable, and a notable political controversy, but that does not mean that a category is needed. Other options should be conidered, such as merging related articles or linking them via a navbox. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:21, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep & Purge The articles I see as legitimately in this category are Franklin Dam, Tasmanian power referendum, 1981, Franklin River, Tasmania's Wilderness Battles (just added), and Robin Gray (Australian politician). That makes 5 though which is my cut off for WP:SMALLCAT. I don't see the rest as being related enough to be in the cat. Phillip Bennett's article doesn't even mention the dam ? RevelationDirect (talk) 01:51, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Doug Lowe, also. He was the Premier at the time of the referendum, and took a strong public stand personally to the point of quitting his party over it and winning his seat as an independent. Orderinchaos 04:37, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - the nominator of this CFD has chosen to retire, and there are issues that I would have thought needed clarifying here - one of a group of 3 categories to do with Tasmanian environmental disputes that invaded the lives of the Australian mainland politics, not just Tasmanian. The way of perceiving the issue is (1) an environmental issue about a location and its fate - small cat perhaps, but (2) a political issue that saw a large range of political players win or lose relative to the issue - at federal, state , and local government levels (3) an iconic issue that even ended up in a high court legal case - combine the three and I really think the small cat argument is a false one. Pity the nominator chooses to retire while these nominations are still up, he did a large amount of good work around the place SatuSuro 07:24, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Lake Pedder

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep. Any name change is best considered separately. Timrollpickering (talk) 09:41, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Lake Pedder (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete per WP:SMALLCAT. Only two of the articles are deserving of such a category and they are best treated with the actual article. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 06:37, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep delete per smallcat is both denial of a significant Tasmanian historical item (politics and environment) a more WP:AGF move would have simply placed popcat at the category - there were many related people and subjects that belong in this category - interesting the UTG celebrations were in Hobart last week - which is one of many component parts of this subject. SatuSuro 07:49, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
See my comments on the Franklin Dam CfD. They apply here as well. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 18:49, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep & Purge The only two articles that really belong in the current category are Lake Pedder and Lake Pedder Action Committee. However, a quick search identified 3 endemic (or formerly endemic extinct) species which I just added bringing the total legit article count to 5. Another close call, but that is my magic number for the ovelry vague WP:SMALLCAT. Keep but get rid of the rest of the articles. (If anything, Lake Pedder should be in a cat for the electric company; each electrical generating station does not define the whole electric company.) RevelationDirect (talk) 02:03, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - electric company happened to be a government authority The Hydro that interfered with Tasmanian politics for over 3 decades - I think like the Franklin issue above - the limited understanding of the actual context in Australian and Tasmanian political world is giving an excuse to play with 'small cat' - the actual long term impact on political, environmental law and green politics is well beyond what the discussion is dealing with SatuSuro 07:29, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply Lots of energy companies are controversial. For a comparison, take a look at the also divisive Category:Entergy. Each of the generating stations is in the electric company category but, even if each generating station had their own subcategory, it wouldn't make sense to straddle the company article with a category for every dam, coal burner and nuclear reactor they own. RevelationDirect (talk) 19:06, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tasmania Wilderness sites

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge to Category:Wilderness areas of Tasmania. Timrollpickering (talk) 08:34, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Tasmania Wilderness sites to Category:Tasmania Wilderness
Nominator's rationale: To match parent article and "sites" is redundant. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 05:47, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - suggest deletion rather than renaming it is an oxymoron SatuSuro 06:31, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That would make the parent article an oxymoron as well? -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 06:50, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What about Category:Tasmania Wilderness World Heritage Sites? I don't like it since it unnecessarily long. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 06:52, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Small community categories

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete the city categories, and upmerge the people categories. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:20, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Dayton, Kentucky (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Wetumka, Oklahoma (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Update: 02:01, 28 March 2012 (UTC): added Category:People from Dayton, Kentucky and Category:People from Wetumka, Oklahoma
Nominator's rationale: These categories each contain one article and one category and have little possibility for growth. The two cities have populations of about 6,000 and 1,500, respectively. Delete. - Eureka Lott 01:49, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wilderness Areas of Tasmania

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep & rename to Category:Wilderness areas of Tasmania. Timrollpickering (talk) 08:30, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Wilderness Areas of Tasmania (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete. "Wilderness Areas of Tasmania" is not an official designation and it is therefore open to being subjective. The five articles can be categorised in Category:Protected areas of Tasmania or Category:Geography of Tasmania if not already done so. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 01:28, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep - (1) geography of tasmania is a parent category, i would not support closing down child categories for fear of subjectivity, it is very easy to put annotation in the category to clarify the context of usage and any issues that may concern the nominator or others (2) official designation ? - the franklin wild rivers national park exists..., (3) please indicate where they are not designated officially (4) protected areas again like the geography of tasmania has no semblance of association of the status of the areas identified SatuSuro 05:39, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I will reiterate - there is no "Wilderness Areas" designation in Tasmania. There is Franklin-Gordon Wild Rivers National Park, South West Wilderness, Tasmanian Wilderness but there is no wilderness area as such. It may sound a bit pedantic but that is necessary in an encyclopaedia. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 05:54, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
comment lost large chunk to edit conflict - rubbish, look at http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/index.aspx?base=391 SatuSuro 06:11, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
comment - misreading the issue - the larger internationally accepted area is the Tasmanian Wilderness World Heritage Area which has component national parks SatuSuro 06:14, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)You should be able to cut and paste to retrieve any text you enter to recover from an edit conflict. Anyway, Category:Tasmania Wilderness sites, which I have put in for renaming, covers the topic. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 06:21, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment it does not in any way - the term site (which I did not create and would support deletion much more than this one) has no connection with the main category. SatuSuro 06:26, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment fundamentally the nomination as it is worded shows little or no understanding of the tasmanian wilderness world heritage area and should have some WP:AGF that the overall concept of the larger officially designated area has component parts and parks - but not sites - the idea does not make sense SatuSuro 06:28, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So you tell me what "Wilderness Areas of Tasmania" refers to and how it differs from [[:Category:Tasmania Wilderness sites]. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 06:34, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This morning you spent time deleting wilderness areas that someone put against mountain ranges that lie within the south west of Tasmania, which happen to lie within the tasmanian wilderness world heritage area - I dont disagree with the set of deletions, and also as they are geographical features that have size and breadth within the larger area I would not consider them sites either. Site usually is implied as a discrete physical area, usually human scale, in my understanding. Wilderness areas of Tasmania is more specific about areas that are components of the larger officially designated wilderness area - usually much larger than human scale such as national parks.

Although in the edit history I originally supported the sites category, I now consider the title a misnomer. SatuSuro 06:44, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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