Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zulfikar Ali Bhutto (artist)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. I see the concerns about the NYT sources (or more precisely, the sources derived from it) but it looks like editors have found additional sourcing. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:25, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto (artist)[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This article might not meet wikipedia's notability guideline. The coverage, subject of the article got is solely because of his family. Like the NYT story. The NYT story has been source of some of the Pakistani press coverage where Bhutto name is enough to be subject of a news article. And the huffpost article is completely passing mention. That is why I think this article should be deleted. ABCDE22 (talk) 04:51, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 05:39, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 05:39, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 05:40, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 05:40, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep as article is already well-referenced and meets WP:GNG guidelines. Störm (talk) 08:41, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The subject is notable. The NYT article [1] provides extensive, in-depth coverage of the subject. Vice, Dawn and Pakistan Today published articles that are specifically about the subject. The Huffington Post article does indeed only mention the subject briefly. That citation can probably be removed; "Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, another Bay Area-based artist" doesn't really support "Bhutto is a practicing Muslim and currently lives in San Francisco" anyway. Vexations (talk) 12:25, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:- I agree with my fellow editor Vexations that the NYT coverage is extensive. But here as nominator I will like to highlight something to the admin who will review the afd discussion.

The title of the NYT article, "The Scion of a Pakistani Political Dynasty Comes Out", the phrase "The Scion of a Pakistani Political Dynasty" seems enough to suggest that why he has got the coverage. The coverages in Pakistan Today and Dawn has been taken from NYT. So it seems enough for me to prove that he does not deserve a stand alone article.

Also the article describe him as an artist. But the article does not even meet the first criteria of WP:ARTIST. According to WP:ARTIST, "The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors." but let go alone being cited by peers and successors the article's anly information about his art work is, "He has worked on creative projects such as Mussalmaan Musclemen, The Third Muslim: Queer and Trans Muslim Narratives of Resistance and Resilience, The Alif Series and Tomorrow We Inherit the Earth", which cites only one source. Other informations are completely about his personal life.

Finally, I will again like to insist my point that this article does not deserve an stand alone wikipedia page and also I will like to request my fellow editor and admin to consider these points before voting and reviewing. ABCDE22 (talk) 10:50, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ABCDE22, If a subject meets the WP:GNG, it doesn't matter that they don't also meet WP:NARTIST. Subject-specific notability guidelines like NARTIST do not override the GNG. As for "deserving" an article, in stead of asking if a subject's accomplishments merit an article, I prefer to think of it as: "Do we sufficient reliable sources to create an article from?" If I were to introduce my own bias about what matters, we'd have to remove all kinds biographies about people are just famous for being famous. That's a sad state of affairs, and I wish it weren't so, but we should show the world as it is, not as we'd like it to be. Vexations (talk) 14:35, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Vexations, Thanks for voicing your opinion but I don't agree with your point if an artist has no requirement of meeting WP:ARTIST, then there was no reason to have it at the first place. In wikipedia we deleted article of Barron Trump, Bhakthawar Bhutto Zardari and Aseefa Bhutto Zardari's article on the base of not having independent notability. 3 of them have got much more press coverage than this one and that also far more in-depth and extensive. Moreover, which I already have pointed out that the article of ZAB (artist) has only one actually extensive coverage which is in NYT. So maybe your own point does not standing up in this case. Bests ABCDE22 (talk)

Keep the NYT article is high level and in-depth coverage. With the other sources, GNG is met.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 01:13, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Additional coverage:

Broadway World ""In performance, creative collaboration becomes a form of political solidarity", states Artistic Director Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, "As artists we use Islam as a springboard for the imagination, taking inspiration from its mythos, mysticism and the evolution of its politicization in order to envision a radically different world where black and brown bodies take center stage."
The Guardian: "“It was a particularly fraught moment for queer and transgender Muslims because the attacker was unfortunately a Muslim,” said San Francisco artist, writer and curator Zulfikar Ali Bhutto."
SF Weekly: "“One of the things I am most exctied about is to see what the drag queen-performance artist named Faluda Islam [aka Zulfikar Ali Bhutto] will do,” Benatar tells SF Weekly. “It is sort of beyond the binary in a lot of ways but it is really knitting together a lot of critical narratives around living in war, and the immigrant experience and what they bring with you to new contexts. We need to be hearing from queer Muslims right now.”
SF Chronicle:"“Alif Is for A(n)nals,” another world premiere, was the most technically elaborate piece of the night. A substantial video, featuring the Urdu voice and fleeting images of San Francisco Muslim drag queen Faluda Islam (Zulfikar Ali Bhutto), accompanied live actors Jose E. Abad and Gabriel Christian (co-creators with Bhutto)."

There is clearly enough here for GNG. One need only do a Google News search to see he is widely cited. The above is mostly quotes, but the NYT article and others used in article give SIGCOV.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 01:37, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep subject of article passes WP:GNG as per reliable sources listed above. Netherzone (talk) 23:13, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
keep Passes notability as article is already well-referenced and meets WP:GNG. -MA Javadi (talk) 16:02, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.