Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Your Turn, Darling

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Vaticidalprophet 08:26, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Your Turn, Darling[edit]

WITHDRAWN BY NOM Noah ^💬 17:10, 16 April 2021 (UTC) [reply]

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Fails NFILMl, a BEFORE search doesn't reveal a GNG pass. Noah ^💬 21:22, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Noah ^💬 21:22, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 21:23, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 21:24, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem to have the odd thing written about it here and there, in French and Italian, under its French and Italian titles. Uncle G (talk) 22:45, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Assuming Noah's shortcut above was actually meant to read WP:NFILM, this seems like a random, unjustified delete request which could be equally applied to thousands of other non-English language films, and would be equally unjustified. The film also has articles in the French, Italian and German Wikipedias – combined with the sources in the English article, there is enough independent coverage from reliable sources in multiple languages to support notability. Just because the English article is a stub, doesn't make it a case for delete. --Sprachraum (talk) 19:00, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Other language versions of this article have been invoked, but looking at those articles, there is next to nothing in them with most of them unsourced, so there is not even usable information there that could be used to expand and better source this article. The only one to have multiple sources is the German WP page, but those all appear to be blogs, broken links, or otherwise unreliable sources. So, it is not just the English article that is a stub, this seems to be a consistent problem for this topic. Now, that doesn't mean sources in other languages don't exist on it, which is why I haven't voted delete, but I would say that with the current evidence that is how I would lean. But if anyone could meet WP:THREE, in any language, I would feel differently. Nangears (talk) 05:16, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Nangears, I believe your request can already be met with the links found in the current four language articles, and there is more to be discovered, if one puts in a bit of effort. I will outline some of that below.

But first I would like to expand on why I find a delete nomination like this one so annoying: Because it is a lazy cop-out from doing the necessary work to improve an article instead, for instance by trying to find & evaluate books and other sources in different languages. Although this film is certainly no masterpiece, it also isn't some unknown obscurity. It is part of a series of popular (at least in Europe) films based on the Lemmy Caution character, culminating in Godard's Alphaville (1965). It was widely distributed and viewed in many countries, especially in Europe. It was available on VHS, in numerous DVD editions and still is in VOD. It is a French/Italian production, so sources are more likely to be found in those languages, but less likely to pop up in a quick English-based internet search. Plus, it features Eddie Constantine, who never made it big in America, but became a huge star in countries like France and Germany – so again: good sources, even on his less renowned films like this one, are more likely to be found in those countries & languages.

Here is what I can see so far:

Books

Blake, Matt; Deal, David (2008). The Eurospy Guide. Baltimore: Midnight Marquee Press. ISBN 9781887664523. – Link. The earlier 2004 edition of this is already cited in the English article.
Mavis, Paul (2011). The Espionage Filmography: United States Releases, 1898 through 1999. Jefferson, NC: McFarland & Company. pp. 352–353. ISBN 9780786449156. – This book is not cited in any article yet. The entry may be short (preview doesn't show all of it) but it does contain a critical appraisal.
Bessy, Maurice; Chirat, Raymond; Bernard, André (1997). Histoire du cinéma français: encyclopédie des films 1961-1965 (in French). Paris: Pygmalion. ISBN 978-2-85704-484-0. – Link 1, Link 2. I couldn't find an online preview (although a PDF may exist), so citing this may involve the harder yards of finding it in a library and translating from French.
Hasemann, Dieter; Dittmar, Michael (1986). Hoppla, hier kommt Eddie!: Eddie Constantine und seine Filme (in German). Berlin/Leipzig: Vistas. ISBN 9783891580080. – Link 1, Link 2. The book subtitle translates to "Eddie Constantine and his films", so its 141 pages may well contain at least something on Your Turn, Darling. Not available in English, but seeing that I'm based in Berlin, should be accessible to me.
Thissen, Rolf (1991). Eddie Constantine: Seine Filme, sein Leben (in German). Munich: Heyne Verlag. ISBN 9783453046290. – Link 1, Link 2. Again, only available in German; 319 pages. The book title translates to "Eddie Constantine: His films, his life". Should be accessible to me.

I do not speak French or Italian, so there may be books in those languages that I can't discover easily. As far as other English language books are concerned, it may also be worth looking at the autobiography of his daughter Tanya Constantine, who lived in Europe with Eddie during the time he made this film:

Constantine, Tanya (2019). Out of My Father's Shadow: Sinatra of the Seine, My Dad Eddie Constantine. Port Townsend, WA: Feral House. ISBN 9781627310666. – Link.

Internet Sources

"A toi de faire... mignonne". unifrance.org. UniFrance. Retrieved 2021-04-04. – The first place to look for French films is unifrance.org, and the original French entry (instead of the English version currently cited in the en-WP), has a more detailed synopsis which isn't a copy-paste from elsewhere. It also contains most of the essential technical details about the film, so there is no need to rely on IMDb for those.
Willems Henri (2013). "À toi de faire... mignonne (1963)". frenchfilms.org. James Travers. Retrieved 2021-04-04. – This is a quality English language source for reviews of French films, which wasn't cited anywhere yet.
David J. Foster (2009-11-04). "Your Turn Darling (1963)". permissiontokill.wordpress.com. Retrieved 2021-04-04. – Already cited in en-WP in this version. Yes, this is a blog, but there is no need to be dismissive about the author David Foster, who is a full-time writer.

Further French language pages you may (or may not) be dismissive of:

Prisma Média
SensCritique

And finally the No. 1 reliable Italian source that should at least be used by the it-WP (but isn't):

cinematografo.it

I haven't searched for more Italian language sources yet; there likely are others. But I believe the links above are more than enough to assert notability. --Sprachraum (talk) 20:42, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Nangears and Noah, it has been nearly two weeks since I have posted the above list of sources, which I believe puts any doubts about notability to rest... Would you please comment whether this makes a difference to your previously stated opinion? You are the two discussion participants who have not reached the conclusion "Keep" yet.

P.S.: Although I haven't been able to actually borrow the two German language books yet (due to Corona), I can confirm from their content tables that both have text passages about this film – in what quality is still to be seen. --Sprachraum (talk) 16:10, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per the multiple reliable book and internet sources identified in this discussion which in total show significant independent coverage so that WP:GNG is passed and deletion is unnecessary in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 23:34, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kieran207(talk-Contribs) 02:12, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per sources above, and it was also reviewed by major Italian critics like Morando Morandini (in Il Morandini, Zanichelli, 1999) and Paolo Mereghetti (in Il Mereghetti, Baldini & Castoldi, 2001). 151.74.99.206 (talk) 16:28, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.