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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yara International School (2nd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Modussiccandi (talk) 13:24, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yara International School[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Yara International School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Previous articles on this topic by the same author have been deleted twice at AfD: in February 2018 and (under a name variant) in March 2021. Given these two prior decisions about notability, it seems appropriate that this newly-created instance be brought to AfD (though I did also consider Draftifying for AfC). Regarding the present instance, it is providing all the information which would be expected to be presented on a school's website: names and roles of teaching and non-teaching staff; curriculum; slogan; and a wall-of-text list of what appears to be every inter-school or external event with which the school has been associated, along with local media coverage of these events. Perhaps such coverage can be regarded as contributing towards WP:GNG but, conversely, participating in inter-school sports days, essay-writing competitions, health awareness weeks, and sponsored walks is utterly mundane and, in my opinion, far from being content appropriate for an encyclopaedia, so I see no reason to overturn the decision of the previous AfDs. AllyD (talk) 08:31, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@AllyD: Whatever happens here, thanks for your work and vigilance. And if kept, congrats for triggering the improvement. North8000 (talk) 20:56, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Derivator2017, you have already provided your keep opinion once above, please don't repeat that. And please don't link to another editor's user account; I have adjusted that too. AllyD (talk) 18:14, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we slow this down? (was pinged by the editor) Article (by a newer editor) has a lot of issues but wp:notability is the main question. While not meeting either GNG or SNG slam dunk, it think that it already meets the wiki norm for schools. And this is without the editor even understanding how to establish notability, i.e. find and present the suitable sources. I'm going to advise the editor on this and then we can see if they can shore up GNG sourcing a bit. North8000 (talk) 19:57, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I posted at their talk page. North8000 (talk) 20:45, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@North8000: There is no "wiki norm for schools". We don't accept circular reasoning here, nor is there an SNG that presumes schools are notable. There is only a clique of editors who repeatedly voice ILIKEIT opinions in these cases. The fact that the article's creator is now hoping to CANVASS on your talk page doesn't help. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:30, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You linked to the wiki norm for schools while telling me that there isn't one.  :-) North8000 (talk) 21:54, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
IMO, when applicable, geographic places sometimes influences it as well. North8000 (talk) 22:10, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I use to really dig the idea of schools having some kind of notability as geographic places depending on the size of the campuses. I gave up on it eventually though, but I can see still where it might have merit in some cases. Especially with university campuses. Except there should be enough in-depth coverage of universities for a standard of notability based on geography to be pointless. --Adamant1 (talk) 05:05, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Had you read the link you'd note: "Secondary schools are not presumed to be notable simply because they exist. WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES should be added to the Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions, as it is an accurate statement of the results but promotes circular reasoning." Schools need to meet NORG or GNG. Are you ignoring this consensus view? Chris Troutman (talk) 02:49, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You're starting to cross the line here. I agree with what is at the link, and have never said otherwise. What's this "had you read the link?" crap? And with questions which imply I said otherwise like "are you ignoring....?" and others. So you are pretending that I said things that I didn't say, and are ignoring things that I did say.North8000 (talk) 03:26, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What really matters here is determining whether or not the school meets the customery level of WP:GNG compliance for schools. Since the editor has no understanding of what GNG means, nobody has attempted that or worked at evaluating that. I'm basically explaining it to them and telling them to look for GNG suitable sources. The we can decide after that attempt is made, or after somebody else makes that attempt.North8000 (talk) 22:00, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • North8000, I agree that notability is the key issue, but don't understand the mention of this as being an "Article (by a newer editor)", as the creator of this article has been editing here since 2017, and has created 230 articles? AllyD (talk) 22:18, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
They have only ~2000 edits and in the space of a couple days have shown themselves to be innocently clueless on notability, canvassing and images. To me that's a newbie.North8000 (talk) 22:31, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
But probably the only thing that matters regarding that was that nobody who has an understanding wp:GNG has a made a check for suitable sources. And I'm trying to get the editor to understand and do that. North8000 (talk) 22:55, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Weak delete or draftify I don't think the article is good enough to warrant being in mainspace at this point since a lot of the references are extremely poor. I'm willing to give the article creator the benefit of the doubt that they can turn it into a semi-workable article at some point though. Since there are references. The article creator just needs to put more time into learning which ones work for notability and which don't. That said, someone could probably argue for keeping it and doing the cleanup in mainspace. I think it would just be better done as a draft where there isn't pressure to work on it or risk it being sent back to AfD again. --Adamant1 (talk) 01:07, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment : I have pointed out three references from the article, each from Arab News, Saudi Gazette and specifically PressReader (although its an Arab News article and its printed form can be accessed here) which are completely dedicated to discussing the school. Besides, eight more references of the same kind are included in the article whose very headlines contain the school's name. Kindly have a look ! (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8) Derivator2017 (talk) 08:55, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Here, I got another Arab News article, written by its deputy managing editor Siraj Wahab that categorizes Yara International School as "Among the most popular CBSE-affiliated schools" in Saudi Arabia. Derivator2017 (talk) 12:32, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep or, alternatively, draftify in user space for improvement I think the 2-3 of the 4 references that the editor just noted from the 70 references in the article are GNG suitable, to the customary extent. Article needs a lot of work. Not just in the usual "building" sense, but in that ocean of factoids that need wikifying. I'm on the fence on whether that should be done in user/draft space or in article space. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:33, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that can be done in the article space itself. A lot of my articles were trimmed, concised and wikified by veteran editors who thought the information wasn't fit for encyclopedic content. Derivator2017 (talk) 20:07, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It looks like you've made significant improvements in that respect North8000 (talk) 14:00, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @North8000: Thanks a lot. Although I am still trying to "wikify" it. Perhaps It'd be great if you could suggest me something. Derivator2017 (talk) 09:57, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a topic that is pretty big and not directly relevant here. I'll make one note here and that would be happy to respond to further questions at the article talk page. You've already started on this area but the current "Relocation to ad-Dirah neighborhood" section is just an immense amount of factoids. Try to break it up into more sections and with more "summary" type material / statements from the 3-4 sources that you specifically noted in this AFD. North8000 (talk) 13:54, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 10:54, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep It looks like the article creator has put a lot of good work into the article since it was nominated for deletion. So I think it is worth keeping now. @Derivator2017:, awesome job improving the article. David Heymann would be proud. --Adamant1 (talk) 07:37, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Adamant1: Thanks a lot for your remarks. I am still trying to work on it. Please feel free to suggest me anything. Derivator2017 (talk) 10:41, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Here, I have tried to summarize the article through sub-headings by adding sub-heading 2 "inter-school events" in order to distinguish it with intra-school events and other notable functions. Derivator2017 (talk) 10:13, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Most K-12 schools are going to be notable enough to have their own article. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:05, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The page looks good.Gusfriend (talk) 09:56, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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