Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Working dog

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. Schwede 66 05:32, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Working dog

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Fails GNG. Only one of the cited sources on the page actually mentions "working dogs" ("Working Dogs". dogtime.com. Archived from the original on 2015-10-21.), it is not RS given its own terms of service states it does "not warrant that the content is accurate, reliable or correct". A google search revealed a number of books from Australia, but in Australia the term "working dog" only refers to sheep and cattle dogs, which is reflected in the sources. I suspect the page is a good faith creation because a number of kennel clubs have a "working group".

Additionally nominating the following redirects that relate solely to this page:

Working Dog (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Working dogs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Cavalryman (talk) 10:33, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn by nominator - RS supporting the term has been presented below. Cavalryman (talk) 14:08, 20 January 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Animal-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 11:18, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This can't be serious. Sourcing of the present article could be improved, but it is trivial to locate sources. BBC: [1], The New York Times: [2], [3], The Washington Post: [4], [5]... Journal articles: [6], [7], [8]. Working dogs assist the blind, sniff drugs, served in armed forces, herd sheep, and many other tasks. Eostrix (talk) 12:12, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep – Working dogs are a core article in the wiki world of dogs. Not only did Eostrix layout a lot of great sources for GNG, but the subject can also qualify through WP:BASIC. Missvain (talk) 17:18, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep - op. cit. Eostrix's comment. Elf | Talk 20:16, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep -Working dog(s) is a "must be" in any encyclopedia, improve sources if the current ones are unreliable.--Darius (talk) 20:35, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - of the eight sources provided by Eostrix, one uses the term "working dog" exclusively about military working dogs, two about herding dogs and two about drug detection dogs. Of the remaining three, one opens it to "any purebred dogs that are 16 inches at the withers", one makes mention of explosive detection dogs, guide dogs and military working dogs without further expansion and the last is a study about a population of military working dogs. None come close to actually defining working dogs as "a canine working animal, i.e., a type of dog that is not merely a pet but learns and performs tasks to assist and/or entertain its human companions, or a breed of such origin".

I accept this proposal appears to be unpopular and so should probably be closed as keep, but it was whilst conducting research to attempt to improve the page I discovered I could find no reliable secondary sources that define "working dogs" as the broad type described in the article, and despite some sensationalist language none have been presented here. Cavalryman (talk) 10:26, 20 January 2020 (UTC).[reply]

It is not surprising that sources often focus on particular subsets of working dogs, such as military working dogs. In journal articles I provided, I selected some from the first page of results on google scholar. Here is one from the second page: The modern working dog—a call for interdisciplinary collaboration, which describes working dogs (in a non-exhaustive manner) as: "Thus, in the United States today, working dogs may include guide dogs, service dogs, assistance dogs, therapy dogs, or dogs that search airplanes for explosives, monitor our borders for the entry of illegal drugs and plants, or search for people who are lost in avalanches, the wilderness, and in natural or man-made disasters.". Here is a book chapter: Evolution of working dogs, covering sled dogs and herding dogs as case studies for the wider class. A book: Canine Ergonomics: The Science of Working Dogs covering the interdisciplinary science of working dogs. Eostrix (talk) 10:50, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Eostrix, thank you for finally finding some usable RS, now I think we have the basis for an article. I cannot read any of the second link but the first clearly articulates a broad definition of the term, whilst it specifies this interpretation of the term to be American, in time this may be expanded upon. Here in Australia the term is very much confined to sheep and cattle dogs ([9] & [10]) and apparently the editors of the Oxford Dictionary think likewise, the papers you presented earlier demonstrate that in Britain the term may also be used to describe military working dogs. I have withdrawn the nomination above. Regards, Cavalryman (talk) 14:08, 20 January 2020 (UTC).[reply]

My understanding is that "Working dog" these days is any trained dog that is used in a non-pet or hobby context. I am not sure just how American this is, or whether it is just the favored term. I don't recall hearing this term when I was younger, though Merriam Webster thinks this dates back to 1885. Eostrix (talk) 14:12, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, it’s a shame they don’t provide the context it was used in. Cavalryman (talk) 09:27, 21 January 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Keep -- this is an overview article and is suitable for inclusion. I search google books for "working dogs" and the book titles that come up show that "working dog" is not just for military working dogs. For example: Ranch Dog: A Tribute to the Working Dog in the American West; Working Sheep Dogs: A Practical Guide to Breeding, Training...; Dog Behaviour, Evolution, and Cognition ("In addition, the term 'working dog' is often used very loosely because 'terriers', 'sheepdogs', 'protecting dogs', 'sledge dogs', or 'gundogs' are all working breeds,..."). Etc. --K.e.coffman (talk) 20:24, 20 January 2020 (UTC)‎[reply]
Keep but maybe clarify. It needs to be very clear to the reader (in the lead and throughout) that this is a role that various dogs are trained for and, to some extent, bred with the intention of. It is not a type of dog nor a breed of dog. I'm not sure how much work it may need in that regard, but probably some. The content needs to be more consistent with Dog sports (another role-not-type/breed article), even if "Dog work" might be an awkward article title. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 23:47, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.