Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ward A. Wescott

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete all except Elmer A. Lampe. I'm happy to userfy on request. lifebaka++ 00:44, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ward A. Wescott[edit]

Head coaches of lower division college football teams which don't apear to be notable. Again I've only nominated coaches with only a single reference which is both trivial and not independent. Any coaches with other claims to notability have not been included. Nor have recent coaches. See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Walter J. West. Also nominated:

Dpmuk (talk) 00:20, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all except for P. Norris Armstrong as he has a pretty size-able number of wins, and for that, I am neutral for him. --Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 01:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Question' Could you outline how you checked? DGG (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Lego K^ontribs T^alk M 06:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all due to lack of non-trivial references from non-first-party sources. Stifle (talk) 09:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep All for collaboration and future expansion. Head coaches of notable programs are notable. By the way, I just became aware of this AfD. I will list it with the appropriate projects.--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- By the way Walter J West article is being re-tooled as he has been found to have a career in the NFL. This is what commonly happens with college coaches--they don't do just "one thing" but have many areas they impact. The collaboration with other users helps to lead to improvement of such articles, and AfDs buried in large piles (we had 58 others in the last week at our project, not incliding these 18!) gives a tough response time.--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:23, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Elmer A. Lampe (coach 1934-37) appears to be the same as Elmer Lampe who was head basketball coach for the Georgia Bulldogs 1938-47, and Dartmouth Big Green ~1948-51. I added the appropriate templates to his page. I presume that the Bulldogs aren't a minor college/team? Tassedethe (talk) 14:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Possible keep Robert Larsen (coach 1977). There is also a Robert Larsen who coached the Chicago Maroons from 1980-82. His record was 3-23-1 there. Possible keep depending on the notability of the Maroons, record etc. Tassedethe (talk) 14:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The University of Chicago has had a Division III team since the late 1960s, after having nothing more than intramural teams or no team at all for the thirty previous years. It's even less notable than before, even presuming that this is the same fellow. RGTraynor 18:38, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete the rest No indication that they achieved anything other than coaching at a minor college, with no titles, trophies, awards etc. Tassedethe (talk) 14:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for lack of non-trivial sources. -Djsasso (talk) 16:35, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete All(except for Lampe): for failure to meet WP:RS, WP:V, WP:BIO. I'm unimpressed with "appears to be the same" or "possibly the same fellow," lines that have come up a lot in these minor coach AfDs; more often than not, there is no evidence that they are in fact the same people, and in two cases already they've been shown not to be. RGTraynor 18:34, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I'm very pleased to confirm that Elmer A. Lampe is Elmer Lampe, coach at the University of Georgia. From Carroll College: The First Century, 1846-1946. Google Books searches also throw up that he published at least 2 academic papers on on sport: Statistics as an Aid to Football Strategy in Scholastic Coach and How to Play Defensive End in The Athletic Journal. Tassedethe (talk) 20:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 22:52, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep for Lampe as a DI coach at Georgia. Every time we hit one of these mass nominations, it seems like at least one of these coaches has something. I'd request that the nominators do some due diligence before mass nominating. matt91486 (talk) 02:44, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I too am uncomfortable with these mass housecleaning efforts. They seem quite pointy and in defiance of trying to work collaboratively. If these were put in list form, for instance, and tied to the respective teams this would seem fine if these people are otherwise non-notable. I've yet to see one of these list AfDs where all were deleted. And having to cope with 18 AfDs at once is quite imbalanced, IMHO. And these are simply the latest 18 after nearly 60 others were sent through the ringer over the last few weeks. -- Banjeboi 00:47, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reply: You've said this elsewhere, on the Articles for Deletion talk page, and were answered there: that in fact mass AfDs are encouraged to avoid clogging up the works, when they can be properly bundled together in a common theme ... and as to that, AfD copes quite well with a hundred or more nominated articles a day. If you'd like to change consensus to officially discourage them, that's fine, but this isn't the venue to make that case. RGTraynor 03:00, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I understand mass AfDs generally speaking, but I don't think that excuses the nominator from making sure that some of the articles aren't notable for other reasons. matt91486 (talk) 05:02, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It took a good bit of digging by more than one editor, seemingly, to come up with the information for Lampe. As it happens, the explicit onus to prove notability or to find reliable sources isn't on the nominator at AfD. Doing a spot check should be encouraged (although there's a lot of resistance to that, coming out of the same discussion), but requiring noms to "make sure" is unreasonable. That being said, User_talk:Benjiboi seems to think there's something wrong with evidence of independent notability turning up with a coach or two in these mass AfDs. Frankly, I'm all for it: several sets of eyes are better than one, and this is a perfectly good time to save an article if feasible. I can't imagine what's uniquely disruptive about such scrutiny being done at AfD as opposed to the previous year, when none was being given at all. RGTraynor 13:10, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My point, and I do have one, is that instead of taking dozens of football articles to AfD at all why not engage the creators and editors to instead convert the majority into useable list articles. The last AFD would have made a fine article taking material we already had. Instead two of the list stayed that were able to stand on their own, within the days of AfD process and the rest were deleted. I suggested then a merge but got no response. That an article isn't improved for months at a time isn't surprising. That 18 aren't whipped into shape in days is also unsurprising. -- Banjeboi 21:08, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And nothing prevents that from being done at any time, pre- or post-AfD: just about all the information on almost all of these AfDs are the years of service and won-lost records, all cribbed off of the respective college websites. (Come to that, nothing prevents you from doing that now; turning this AfD into a list would take what, about twenty minutes?) RGTraynor 23:08, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep all as rediculous bundle nomination. Bundle nominations are for subjects whose independent notability is unlikely. Such as all books in a series, all parts of any whole. These are all people, and each could be a famous cook, politician, author, town drunk, murderer, cat-juggler, female impersonator, gold digger, worm eater, or gold medal winning Olympian. Each must be considered separately, so this nomination is doomed. Speedy close the mess. Jerry delusional ¤ kangaroo 14:45, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete most but Keep Larsen and Lampe I am also not opposed to an IAR relisting for a few days to allow editors time to look through these some more. I would support that more than a no consensus close here. I understand that mass AfD's are trying but this one (at least by % found to be notable) seems to have been well researched. And before we go blaming the nominator for causing this mess single handedly, we have to remember that the CFB project took it on themselves to operate by their project-wide consensus on notability when creating and policing articles, rather than WP:ATHLETE. I would also be fine with a redirect or merge to each respective program. Protonk (talk) 16:36, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
An extremely lazy bundle nomination Each one of these need to be looked at as a separate AFD. Close this nonsense. SashaNein (talk) 22:20, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.