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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Wifione ....... Leave a message 09:21, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma[edit]

Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Originally listed at CAT:SD, but I'm not sure it qualifies under any of the criteria. Listing here just in case, for lack of notability. Larry V (talk | e-mail) 00:25, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — -- Cirt (talk) 03:07, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Spirituality-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 19:08, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philosophy-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 19:08, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 19:08, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete This article is about a non-notable martial art. There are no independent sources about this art and Richard Burgess claims to be the founder/successor of this art--which seems to conflict with the claim of being thousands of years old. The organization claims to have been a secret society of monks from around the world. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and this article has no supporting evidence. Papaursa (talk) 23:09, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This article nor its characters have any notability. It is in the nature of blatant advertisement. There is no independent references avaialble. It seems to have been created by a single purpose user who may have conflict of Interest. I would have prefered speedy delete, which I had originally recommended.--Indian Chronicles (talk) 05:39, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I wasn't certain it qualified as an "organization" under A7, and I wanted to make sure. I guess G11 would have been sufficient, now that I think about it. Doesn't look like it'll be around for much longer, though, so all's well that ends well. Larry V (talk | e-mail) 18:15, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Sounds like just another bullshido mill. Fails the GNG and WP:ORG or CORP.  Ravenswing  14:19, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Everything I found sounds like bullshido to me. No reliable sources. Jakejr (talk) 18:16, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Nonsense hoax article. Keb25 (talk) 06:34, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma is an ancient philosophy that is well documented. There are many temples that will educate you on it. Rishi Burgess is an instructor of C.O.R.E. as the article points out. Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma can even be found discussed on recent news sites. WBMF News of Myrtle Beach. Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma also recieved the "Most Innovative Program of the Year Award" that will be shared here soon. We will post the scripture here as well to help you understand what you are speaking about before requesting a deletion. Rishi Burgess is a well known Sramana Philosopher who has studied in many Buddhist temples and is the owner of the Sramana School of Thought. We will have others come add to the site as soon as possible. Thank you for your concern. =) Namaste — Preceding unsigned comment added by JainPlanetism (talk • contribs) 03:55, 15 June 2011 (UTC) To help you understand the philosophy read on Ahimsa. (Non Violence) You may also like to compare with Ajivika and Gandhara philosophy. Rishi burgess gives seminars at temples in the U.S. often if you would like to learn more about this practice in person. He is is a teacher of the Jhana's and meditation practice. Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma is the practice of "Mind". C.O.R.E. is the techniques "Body". Sramanic practice is the "Spirit". "Mind, Body, Spirit". You can buy the book called "The Sramanic Warrior". We will add the ISBN if needed. In short Virodhi Himsa Adhayatma is well documented and not some Bullshido as the disrespectful comment claims above. Rishi Burgess is the founder of the Association not the practice. If you read the article you will notice that as well. There is nothing secret about Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma. Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma is not martial arts it is protective arts. There is nothing militant "martial" about Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma. Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma is also used in the Bando monk system. Well known fighter and World Champion Joe Lewis has confirmed this in a recent email with Rishi Burgess. We will be happy to forward this information to Wikipedia to help solve this misinformed view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JainPlanetism (talk • contribs) 04:30, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WORLD HEAD OF FAMILY SOKESHIP COUNCIL 

6035 Ft. Caroline Rd. Unit 22, Jacksonville, FL. 32277

Tel. (904) 745-6019/ Fax (904) 744-4625 Website address: www.WHFSC.com [email protected] You have been inducted under this years’ 2011 nomination category of: 2011 MOST INNOVATIVE TRAINING PROGRAM OF THE YR - VIRODHI HIMSA ADHYATMA - S.C. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JainPlanetism (talk • contribs) 04:55, 15 June 2011 (UTC) Just to clear up this Idea of promoting onself, the name Rishi Burgess is removed. Rishi Burgess is successful already and he did not write this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JainPlanetism (talk • contribs) 05:30, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Virodhi Himdsa adhyatma is not all document!!. Please check Google Book Search. Not one single entry!.
The Jain concept of Virodhi himsa i.e. self-defence has nothing to do with this so called Virodhi Himdsa adhyatma. Virodhi himsa is just one of the types of violence that a layman can indulge in and that too only in rarest of rare cases. Hence this is not a philosophical system as wrongly pitched.--Indian Chronicles (talk) 05:58, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I have my serious doubt that JainPlanetism and Sges774 are same account and created to give an illusion of support. I have added tags of suspected sockpuppets.--Indian Chronicles (talk) 06:14, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is a matter of opinion. I will continue linking information that can be verified as you now see. This is not the place for religious debate or false views. The Jain religion lost the purvas who are you to know what is what? Non-Violence Practice is older than Jain. Even Buddha was a warrior. Mahavira was also a warrior. In what world do you protect yourself without thought? Any combat expert will tell you how knowing ones self is important to protective violence. Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma is the correct way to explain the practice. If you injure, you suffer the kamma. There is thought involved and one must know their own limitations. Do you claim knowledge of the ancient past? You will find many doctors and scholars will verify supporting information on Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma. Good luck with your claims. You must have an issue with Rishi Burgess. You now even claim that I made another account. If you have an issue with Rishi take it up with him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.138.219.85 (talk) 06:42, 15 June 2011 (UTC) The concept of "Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma" as you stated[reply] 

     is important in the Bando Monk System.
     It is a non-violent system of self-defense.
     Defender will use non-lethal strikes or
     techniques, so that the aggressor or attacker 
     is not seriously harmed.
     Conceptually, it sounds great. But, in reality,
     it is extremely difficult to learn and execute
     under pressure. ~Dr. Maung Gyi  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.138.219.85 (talk) 07:14, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Larry V. I believe we have now proven that Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma should be here to stay. Rishi Burgess is no longer listed in the article. It will not change the fact that he is founder of the Association but as you must be aware we wish to keep the peace. I am happy that "Indian Chronicles" now has helped prove that Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma has a use in the Jain religion. Lary V we would be happy change things around as you see fit. Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma is well known and there is no need to delete this philosophy. I can have many Buddhist, Jain, and Sramanas sign a petition. Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma was also a known philosophy to the Bactrians. Doctors can verify its use of protective arts as part of its philosophy. Please do not let "Indian Chronicles" make this a religious debate. To the Sramana way of life it is an important part of our culture and a philosdophy. After further research on this matter we believe that "Indian Chronicles" has an outside contact to Rishi Burgess. This would explain your being contacted in regards to this article. Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma was also instructed inside Charlotte Mecklenburg School systems and at Central Piedmont College as an elective course. Students recieved credits for it. We will continue to build up this article to help educate people on the facts. Also Sges774 has offered to help now and if you would like her contact information I can forward it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JainPlanetism (talk • contribs) 16:36, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Three points.
  1. The resolution of this discussion is not in my hands, and I will not withdraw the deletion nomination.
  2. I see no reason to assume bad faith on the part of Indian Chronicles, as you seem to.
  3. Note that recruiting a personal contact to contribute to an AfD discussion—which you just implicated yourself in doing—is a violation of the sock puppetry policy and is grounds for an indefinite block. I've opened a sockpuppet investigation at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/JainPlanetism.
Larry V (talk | e-mail) 17:24, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Recruiting and knowing are two different things. It was her that asked me to check the article or I would have not known. As for the article deletion it does not hold much water. Virodhi Himsa Adhyatma will not just be listed on Wikipedia soon. As a college course you can guess it has cited material. As much as I enjoy Wikipedia many college professors would not allow a student to cite Wikipedia anyway. I do see this a religious motivated as there is only one view being given. The Jain view. The Jain view can also be argued. I trust I am leaving this in good hands. If it is deleted it will become a much larger topic is all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JainPlanetism (talk • contribs) 17:43, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just want to clear something up. I am not Jain Planetism and was not "recruited" by him. I contacted him to let him know that the article was up for deletion. I then offered information here and on the article to help people find information that verifies this philosophy and save an article I think should be on wiki from being deleted. It is nice to know that new information is monitored and needs to be verified. I decided to share information to support this article and I am being treated poorly for it. Look at the information that is presented and not for some conspiracy theory. Throwing out accusations of sockpuppetry is not going to deter from what the point of this is, to decide if this article has verifiable information. Yes it does.--Sges774 (talk) 19:10, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I did not mean for the sockpuppet business to distract from the AfD discussion, and I apologize for bringing it up here. Larry V (talk | email) 20:08, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Jainplanetism/Sges774, unfortunately your arguments are not helping your case. The question of deletion of this article has nothing to do with whether Mahavira or Buddha was a warrior or not. It has nothing to do with religious debates or Jain view. The Jian concept is Virodhi himsa and not Virodhi himsa Adhayatma. Do not put words in my mouth and do not do selective reading. This will not help your cause by assuming bad faith. Inspite of so much debates, you have not been able to bring out one single reference or reliable source. That is because it does not exist. Your references to others being contacted by someone and you getting signature does not inspire confidence and implies that some organisation is behind it. I am sure that Rishi is doing a good job and is propagating a good philosophy. Good luck to him and his students. But please understand that wikipedia runs according to certain rules. This is what makes it a great site and ensures its reliability. Blatant advertisement cannot be allowed here. Maybe after sometime when VHA gains some notability and there are good valid independent references and reliable sources around you can come back to create an article. Till then please respect the wikipedai rules.--Indian Chronicles (talk) 04:43, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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