Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vercors Cave System

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Vercors Massif. This allows merging as some suggest. Sandstein 08:10, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Vercors Cave System

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This article is about a non-existent subject. It maintains that "The Vercors cave 'system' is an Anglophone way of referring to the many long, narrow caves situated in the Vercors Massif", but without giving a reference to that basic fact. I have never heard or seen the caves of Vercors being referred to as the "Vercors Cave System". The introduction implies that the caves of Vercors are long, narrow caves - this certainly does match the reality, and contradicts what follows. The section on the "History" is trite and misleading in that the British have played little part in the exploration of the caves in the area, and the facts contained in the section on the "Skeleton of Boy" are not backed up by the reference given. I recommend that this article be deleted. Langcliffe (talk) 15:28, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:43, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There are certainly caves in Vercors – here's a book about them. See WP:NEXIST. Andrew🐉(talk) 00:22, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, Andrew - but my point is that there are many cave systems in the Vercors - but not a "Vercors cave system" which is what the article is about, and your reference (I have a copy) does not indicate that there is. As pointed out above, most of the contents of the article are wrong and misleading. Any reference to a "Vercors Cave System" on the web post-date this article. One compromise is if I extend the Vercors article to discuss its cave systems. Langcliffe (talk) 07:58, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This article can be deleted and a part, a chapter caving can be added to Vercors Massif.

--Biboc (talk) 13:34, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 02:08, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and merge with Vercors Massif as suggested above.

Meugher2002 (talk) 19:05, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion and merger are incompatible – see WP:MAD. The editors suggesting merger fail to explain how this would add any value. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:07, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew - Maybe I have used the wrong terminology - if so, please forgive me. My main point is that the article is about "Vercors Cave System". But there isn't a "Vercors Cave System". We are all agreed that there are caves in the Vercors, but not a "Vercors Cave System", and no one so far has disputed this. To have an article about a subject that doesn't exist is obviously nonsense - or at least it is so to my brain. If the article is to be retained, I suggest that it should be demonstrated that there actually is a "Vercors Cave System".

What I was trying to suggest, albeit in my own rather ineffective way, is that the Vercors Massif article could be extended to have a fuller discussion on the various Vercors cave systems to satisy what was probably the intention of the creator of the article. Currently, we only have the words "In the massif's karstic area is the Vercors Cave System and the Gouffre Berger." The Gouffre Berger is indeed significant being the first in the world to be explored to a depth of over 1000 metres, and still the deepest in the area, but there are over a dozen separate systems which have been explored to a length of over 30km, some of which are worthy of mention. Langcliffe (talk) 19:43, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete the subject is not a cave system. CAVE SYSTEM A collection of caves interconnected by enterable passages or linked hydrologically or a cave with an extensive complex of chambers and passages. (Glossary of Cave and Karst Terminology, Wiley)
There is a set of caves, possibly including some smaller cave systems, but as others have noted it's a cave-system-not-a-cave-system and such a construct is unsuitable. — Alalch Emis (talk) 06:08, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.