Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/UK Alfa Romeo Owners Club

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Arguments to keep (outside of North8000) amount to: (1) it's no worse than other articles in the same category, (2) we can't get good sources for something this obscure, and (3) keep it but rewrite it. These aren't rationales grounded in policy and there's no case being made for why precedent shouldn't apply here, so delete. causa sui (talk) 20:46, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

UK Alfa Romeo Owners Club[edit]

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No indications of notability. Was REFUNDed from a previous PROD but article unchanged since. HighKing (talk) 13:38, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete although if WP:RS references can be added, no objections to keeping. WP:GNG states an article should have "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject", that does not exist on this organization. --HighKing (talk) 13:55, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 14:20, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This article is no more or less notable than any of the others in its category, and it is referenced to the same extent as most of the others - better in some cases, so delete all or none, but not just this one. The only distinguishing feature of this article is that it contains the word British Isles, which is why the whole article has been suggested for deletion. The Skywatcher and me (talk) 17:02, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a reason for keeping. LibStar (talk) 05:16, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note to closing admin This editor only revived this article because I had originally tagged it for deletion. The editor promised to add references on condition it was refunded, which the editor did not do. Please note that this editor has not been indef blocked for following my edits around (this article cited) and related behaviour - . --HighKing (talk) 16:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Unless the text is BS, it's a 45 year old national club with 4,0000 members. Existence of sources suitable for wp:notabity is likely. North8000 (talk) 19:56, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, I've no objections to keeping if sources can be found. You say sources are likely - yet I've looked and I can't find anything suitable, and the article has been tagged for months without any. Skywatcher above had the article REFUNDED after a PROD delete and promised to add refs. That was over a week ago and still nothing. --HighKing (talk) 20:02, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete As the article stands it fails WP:GNG and WP:ORG. Mt king ^(edits) 21:32, 20 September 2011 (UTC) see below Mt king ^(edits) 07:42, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Should probably declare that I have a small WP:COI in that I drive and Alfa Mt king ^(edits) 21:48, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, v/r - T P 16:41, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong delete fails WP:ORG. it is irrelevant that other similar clubs exist. gets a sole gnews hit. [1]. LibStar (talk) 05:17, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There are references out there and two of them are given in the article. You're not exactly going to get "academic" references on this sort of stuff, so other web references are adequate. WoodMuncher (talk) 19:46, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Better referenced than some other articles in that same category -->Typ932 ^T·C 04:57, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have being giving this some thought over the last week, and am having some difficulty in accepting that this nom is totally in good faith given the nominators British Isles editing restriction so for that reason I feel I have to withdraw my Delete !vote. However the article as written does not meet WP:GNG, so I find I am unable to !vote keep for that reason. However it is reasonable to assume that other off-line sources probably exist, so I would urge the closing admin if they believe there is consensus to delete that they might consider alternatives such as the article incubator. Mt king ^(edits) 07:42, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
delete fails WP:ORG like other articles about car owner' clubs. I can't even see how one self-reference count as a valid reliable third party source when it is its own magazine, that is unless sole self reference from its own website counts, I can't see how it is a worthy source material and the other, what is it, a car manufacturer visiting a club meeting; don't we get this happening a lot, therefore manufacturer's support is nothing uncommon in car clubs. Donnie Park (talk) 13:38, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I haven't made my mind up about this yet. But I have seen that there aren't that many other car clubs in Wikipedia, so it could be deleted. On the other hand it isn't really fair to: the user who added it; and the club: because there are other car club pages, wouldn't the other car club pages have to be deleted too? —Starfleet Academy "Live long and prosper." 09:34, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- That is if they can't meet notability guidelines per WP:ORG; Saleen Owners and Enthusiasts Club, Buick Club of America, Wheels of Italy, Audi Club North America and Quantum Owners Club are the potential candidates for deletion since they have all failed that. At least that will serve as a warning to others who wish to use Wikipedia for the purpose of self promotion, but then somebody can do all that as I'm not in a position to play Wiki Grim Reaper. Donnie Park (talk) 10:18, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok well if they don't meet ORG then why not delete them all? I don't see a problem with being a "Wiki Grim Reaper". I mean spamming is spamming. But the Buick Club of America (just a EX.) isn't a for-profit company. It is much the same as Wikipedia. Just instead of info, it's preservation of Buicks. (Wow you'd think I was a member! <Laughter />) I'm saying that who draws the line (link <Laughter />). So I could go either way still. The Alfa club is a stub, so it could be deleted before too much more work goes into it. —Starfleet Academy "Live long and prosper." 03:09, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:15, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails to meet WP:ORG and Wikipedia is not a directory. The fact that other similar pages exist is no reason to keep and they should be nominated too. Heywoodg ^talk 10:00, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Why was just this article nominated at the first place, when there is even worse articles, those should be deleted before this one. -->Typ932 ^T·C 02:28, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I this were a new-ish article I would say keep. But it has been around for seven years so.. As a constructive suggestion could we perhaps have an article called Alfa Romeo Owners Clubs. If you drew together the references from the organisations in UK, US and Italy you could probably have a passable article.Tigerboy1966 (talk) 20:55, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I think that is a great idea Tigerboy1966. I mean we have a "Car Club" page. Why not some examples of what I car club is? I will even go as far as saying that we should point out the differences between car clubs on the same subject, eg Alpha car clubs of the world. (Please don't just don't call it that though! <laughter />) ——Starfleet Academy "Live long and prosper." 03:08, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete fails WP:GNG. Stuartyeates (talk) 07:17, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:GNG, with the refs being non-reliable and saying nothing about the topic respectively.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 01:10, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: but re-write. I like Tigerboy1966's idea a lot (see the last "Comment" above). I think that the there should be articles on Buick car clubs; Alpha car clubs etc. IMO Starfleet Academy "Live long and prosper." 02:24, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.