Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tony Vega (jockey)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Killiondude (talk) 06:23, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tony Vega (jockey)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NHORSERACING guideline. Written by a WP:COI account, lengthy article that makes his career sound very impressive. However, the truth is he won only one graded stakes race. That would be the 1988 Martha Washington Handicap, a grade 3 race. The guideline would require him to win multiple races. Also, that race was won during a jockey strike in which he crossed the picket-line, meaning that there was less competition than usual. His only national rs coverage comes from that race. Rusf10 (talk) 00:02, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 06:54, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the23:17, 6 May 2018 (UTC)23:17, 6 May 2018 (UTC)23:17, 6 May 2018 (UTC)~ list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 06:54, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Question: Why do you think, Rusf10, that there is a WP:COI here? -The Gnome (talk) 08:53, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't it obvious? The user who created the page is User:Tony Vega jr--Rusf10 (talk) 16:44, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if you noticed but the subject of the article, the eponymous Tony Vega, passed away in 2013 while the article was created in 2016. So, the contributor can be his offspring or a fan (in which case we have a bit of a bias, but not COI) or even the dear departed himself, which would make things here in Wikipedia very interesting. -The Gnome (talk) 17:30, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

My guess would be that it's his son, hence jr.--Rusf10 (talk) 19:31, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Son of jockey Tony Vega documenting his father's life on film. Not illegitimate, as long as Dad was genuinely notable.E.M.Gregory (talk) 01:26, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, quite possibly, Rusf10. As I said, possible bias; not COI. Take care. -The Gnome (talk) 09:00, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Rush10, I have asked at a number of previous AfDs whether you have access to a news archive. I ask this again because it is important in assessing the notability of subjects that were prominent in the 1980s, as this jockey was. Article about a jockey who drew SIGCOV in at the start of his career in the 1980s, then his career seems to have faded. Athletic careers can be brief. I strongly urge article creator @Tony Vega jr: to return and: 1.) remove unsourced material, and 2. reduce hype. However, searches on Proquest new archive show enough WP:SIGCOV coverage to support notability. I did some minor revision and added a few sources.E.M.Gregory (talk) 01:52, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The existing references look fine to me. --RAN (talk) 02:28, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Meets GNG per sources in article. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 02:58, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Plenty of sources to establish notability. See philly inquirer articles. Husounde (talk) 05:24, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep WP:NHORSERACING #2 demands Individuals who have won multiple significant Grade/Group 2 or 3 graded stakes races or the equivalent level in their respective nations. Taking into account only Monmouth, there are 2 Grade I, 2 Grade II, 14 Grade III, and 14 ungraded races ran in it. The subject has won some 134 races there, and for this has been lauded with accolades, per sources. Statistically and logically, it's rather difficult to claim that all the races he won were ungraded ones. Other sources confirm multiple wins of significant races. Therefore, subject comfortably meets the required criteria for notability. -The Gnome (talk) 09:00, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Having said that, I agree the text is infested with a huge colony of biased bacteria and needs some serious clean-up. If the article stays, I estimate about one third of the current text to remain in place. -The Gnome (talk) 09:00, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rusf10 You obviously have no clue about horse racing, or what being a successful jockey is. Tony Vega was a professional athlete (Jockey) who was very successful, Champion jockey at two different tracks as an Apprentice and was first jockey ever to win 100 races during Monmmouth's summer meet, and won over 1,000 races during a thirty year career. Vega competed against some of the greatest jockeys of all time from 1982-2012. Despite not winning any breeders cup or Triple Crown races, Vega won a bunch of stakes races, and rode in a couple dozen grade 1's, Grade 2's, and Grade 3's as well. Some of the more notable races vega competed in were The Cotillion Gr.1 (Now worth U.S. $1 Million), The Gr.1 Sapling, The Gr.1 Sorority, The Gr.1 United Nations Handicap, The All American handicap, The Gr.2 Black Eyed Susan stakes, The Gr.1 $750,000 NYRA Mile /Cigar Mile, The Gr.3 Martha Washington and many others.

Tony Vega also rode Hall of fame Champion Sprinter & Eclipse Award winner Precisionist to a third place finish behind legendary racehorse Forty Niner in the inaugural running of the NYRA Mile (Now known as The Cigar Mile) at Aqueduct racetrack, which is a very prestigious races in the U.S. during the fall/winter racing season. Also, the jockey strike only lasted a week and a half (in NY), and Vega continued to ride successfully against the regular NY riders which included Hall of Fame jockeys Jerry Bailey, Angel Cordero, Eddie Maple, Chris Antley, Jose Santos, Jean Cruet, Jorge Velasquez and more at Aqueduct, winning 18 races, 2nd in the NY jockey standings before moving his tack to a new track. Vega won the Grade 3 Martha Washington HDC at Laurel park in Maryland against his arch rival Jean Cruget who won Triple Crown aboard Seattle Slew, Julie Krone, who is the greatest female rider that ever lived, Kent Desormeaux who was North America's leading jockey for wins in the U.S.at that time,(Also won 2016 Preakness stakes aboard Exaggerator), among others. Tony Vega was the Dan Marino of Horse racing.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Tony Vega jr (talk • contribs)

I may not be a horse racing expert, but the WP:NHORSERACING guideline is clear. It doesn't matter who else he raced with or what horse he used (he doesn't inherit notability from the horse), the fact remains he only won one graded stakes race. Comparing him to Dan Marino (a hall-of-famer and MVP) is makes no sense at all.--Rusf10 (talk) 23:34, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tony Vega is on the hall of fame ballot, and its makes a lot of sense (Marino remark) because he never quite got the credit he deserved as one of the best QB, or one of the best, because he never won a Super Bowl. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tony Vega jr (talk • contribs) 23:41, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We go by sources, Tony Vega jr; not your opinion or mine about Dan Marino, Tony Vega, or anyone else. Try and maintain a less confrontational attitude in these discussions. It not only facilitates the dialogue but helps your argument too. Take care. -The Gnome (talk) 07:48, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the subject meets WP:NHORSERACING, Rusf10. It only takes a brief yet careful perusal of sources in the article along with an online tour. -The Gnome (talk) 07:48, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rus, Tony, Listen to yourselves. Rusf10, people who create memorial pages deserve the sympathy of experienced editors, and kindly explanations of how we roll. Tony Vega jr. welcome to Wikipedia, I hope you join us in building an encyclopedia. Although if you do decide to stick around and do more editing, you will need to take the time to learn our rules of editing, and listen to the advice that experienced editors have offered above. We try very hard to judge pages by their merits, and to include only information that has been published by reliable sources, such as reputable newspapers. In this case, I strongly advise you to back off form editing this page and allow experienced editors decide whether this page will be kept and what aspects of Vega's career should be included. E.M.Gregory (talk) 00:45, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note to Tony Vega Jr. You can write a blog entry or set up a web page or a Youtube video with his information on his father, and that can be used as a reference. Wikipedia should always reference an outside source and that can be what Tony Vega Jr., the son reminiscing about his father. --RAN (talk) 04:29, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ):That's really bad advice, see WP:RSSELF. Btw, didn't you get in trouble for doing something similar?--Rusf10 (talk) 15:20, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Per WP:GNG. Close by WP:SNOWBALL? gidonb (talk) 06:07, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.