Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The perfect woman (expression)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 05:40, 24 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The perfect woman (expression)[edit]

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Comment I fail to see how this is a reasonable topic for an encyclopedia article. Qua 'expression', it's surely a trivial dictionary definition, no more noteworthy than The perfect cheeseburger or The perfect holiday. Any straying into the territory of what is meant by the expression probably belongs in an article with another name. TheLongTone (talk) 22:42, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I have to be careful what I'm about to say, because I don't want to offend you, but this is rubbish. The expression "the perfect woman" is widely used in popular culture. I'm sure most, if not everybody, including yourself, have heard it on countless occasions. Comparing it to "the perfect cheeseburger" or "the perfect holiday" is simply not reasonable. Since it's an expression it should only be removed if it's considered unremarkable neologism, and considering there is articles for expressions like "Is the glass half empty or half full?" it should defiantly remain an article. Also, just because you haven't heard of it, in case you haven't, doesn't mean it's unremarkable neologism or a non-used expression. Jonas Vinther (talk) 23:02, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In what way does the expression differ from The perfect gin and tonic or whatever?TheLongTone (talk) 23:07, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, "the perfect woman" or "the perfect man" for the sake of the argument, is commonly used as an expression. "the perfect cheeseburger" or "the perfect gin and tonic" (good one by the way) is not commonly used and is not an expression, friend. Had the phrase "the perfect gin and tonic" being used commonly and famously known as an expression or saying, it would be different, but it's not. Jonas Vinther (talk) 23:12, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There's no way to build an encyclopaedia article around a term which has no definition whatsoever. We could also have articles on The perfect city, The perfect colour of the sky and The perfect misogynist and they'd be equally unsuitable for inclusion here. The encyclopaedic aspects of the factors humans find attractive in one another (and why) are dealt with in Interpersonal attraction and similar articles, so this serves no useful purpose. Nick-D (talk) 23:33, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

KeepIt would very possible to build an encyclopedia article around the definition of "the perfect woman" in the sense of expressing extremely broad subjects. My main ace in keeping the article would again be that when articles such as "Is the glass half empty or half full?" exist, this one should too. It would actually be relatively easy to make a definition based on the articles name in itself. And welcome home from vacation, hope jetlag isn't bogging you too much, in case you traveled by air. :) Jonas Vinther (talk) 23:41, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Please don't vote repeatedly: I've just struck your second 'keep'. I wasn't on vacation BTW. Nick-D (talk) 00:03, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What the...? Jonas Vinther (talk) 00:14, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The perfect delete. Nothing particularly notable (or things to say) about this expression over millions of other common phrases. This would open the floodgates to "the perfect [insert noun of your choice]", e.g. hamburger, quarterback, hotel, etc. (Joan Crawford?! Ewwww.) Clarityfiend (talk) 00:28, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Ewww"??!! What about Grand Hotel? What about Mildred Pierce?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 00:51, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Oh, for God's sake. First of all, this expression doesn't only mean what this article says it means, it means a zillion things depending on context. Read Betty Friedan or Carol Gilligan for distinctly different uses of this phrase. Secondly, in the meaning discussed in this article, the phrase is not notable. Third, even if there were some way using reliable sources to pin down the topic to what this article wants to discuss, it would fail because it's strongly time-dependent. It might be possible to write an encyclopedic article on changing social conceptions of perfection in women, but this isn't it, and the article wouldn't be called this if it were. TL;DR: WP:NOT#DICTIONARY.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 00:47, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Clearly, the discussion is lost, so going to "drop the stick" as Wikipedia puts it. Regarding Joan Crawford Clarityfiend, I would not personally categorize her as "a perfect women". I wanted to have 2 color photos and 2 black-and-white photos. Jonas Vinther (talk) 00:53, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:15, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:15, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There is nothing encyclopedic to say about this phrase, and any discussion of historical views of beauty and attraction would be better discussed in other articles, such as Beauty, Physical attractiveness, and Sexual attraction. Common phrases do not automatically get encyclopedia articles or else we'd end up a near-infinite catalog of cliched stock phrases used by lazy journalists. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:24, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Dictionary definition, at best, and highly subjective at that. A good excuse to run graphics of cute girls, of course... Now, The perfect cup of coffee or The perfect day at the beach, that I could support... Carrite (talk) 02:44, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I was more or less trying to talk myself into a keep !vote, as this does seem to be a fairly set phrase. However, a search of Google books finds no published work about "the perfect woman" qua phrase. (Sources may be out there, but so far I can't find them.) There are many books that use the phrase, but so far I have not found any that discuss the meaning, history, or other encyclopedic information about it. The title notwithstanding, there is also nothing in article currently about the expression, beyond a (flawed) definition. Therefore, delete the article as insufficiently notable or at best a perma-stub. And now I want to re-watch Mildred Pierce. Cnilep (talk) 03:50, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
'Delete per Cnilep above. That is the most damning point. Thargor Orlando (talk) 12:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The sources cited use the phrase. To be included into Wikipedia, there have to be sources discussing the concept of the phrase itself per WP:GNG. Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:38, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails GNG, and a subjective dictionary term at that. KonveyorBelt 19:03, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Creates inherent and systemic bias, which is undesirable on an encyclopedia with a neutral point of view. Mr. Guye (talk) 18:51, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Although I don't think this "article" can or should be kept, that is not a credible reason. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:10, 22 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I don't think you're being bold enough. It would be possible to create a full-length article about the expression by covering subjects like the expressions origins, use in popular culture, famous celebrities dubbed "perfect women", and it's definition. Jonas Vinther (talk) 23:35, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. At best a POV dictionary term. Kierzek (talk) 20:19, 22 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.