Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Space Explorers

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Atlantic306 (talk) 02:46, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Space Explorers[edit]

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I tried to rescue this by looking for sources to estabilish notability, but I am finding next to nothing, some websites of dubious reliability (fansites, etc.) plus some discussion of this in a book by one of the creators (so not really an independent source). It reads like something that should be cult and notable (American Space Era animated flick using Soviet footage...), but sadly I failed in proving this is the case. Time for trial by fire, and I really would like to be proven wrong here, with this rescued. But if we cannot do this, this may need to go (perhaps some ATD in a form of redirect could work, but redirect where?). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:09, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:09, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Fred Ladd. I can't really see where this is discussed outside of Ladd. It's discussed in his article and we could maybe merge some light info there, but other than that there's not enough to show independent notability. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 23:43, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. Did you see this? Looks like it might have been something important, but I can't tell where it may have been published, nor whether it talks about this topic in detail. Jclemens (talk) 06:50, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Jclemens The link points to an expire cloud storage file? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:53, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I see a PDF entitled "An absolutely fascinating period piece ...": WELTRAUMSCHIFF I STARTET by Joerg Hartmann, which is substantially in German but appears to at least mention this... I think. Not saying it's great, notice the lack of bolded !vote, but it's the best a few minutes of looking could find. Jclemens (talk) 07:57, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'll ping User:Daranios, whose German should be much better than mine :> _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:29, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Piotrus and Jclemens: Oh yes, that is indeed a promising source, and I'd definitely count it as significant treatment. If you want to judge the volume for yourself, the section "9. Die späte Rezeption: THE SPACE EXPLORERS im US-TV", page 22 + 23 top is almost wholly about The Space Explorers. It contains information about production history and motivation, a short plot summary, praises the special effects and comments on the popularity of the series and its impact by inspiring engineers and pilots to get involved in space flight. Hope that helps. Daranios (talk) 10:14, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep because there are secondary sources after all: In addition to ""An absolutely fascinating period piece …": WELTRAUMSCHIFF I STARTET" discussed above, and the short/very short treatment in the two sources already in the article, I've come upon an article directly about the series by the Encyclopedia Astronautica, which seems a legitimate source as far as I can tell. So together these should nicely fulfill WP:GNG. Daranios (talk) 11:04, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, but I am afraid EA is a one-person fansite ("It is maintained by space enthusiast and author Mark Wade.") and I doubt it is notable (I will be likely AfDing Encyclopedia Astronautica). Remember, folks, not everything that calls itself "an encyclopedia" is reliable. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:13, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, but the American Astronautical Society gave that site an award which "recognizes exceptional, sustained efforts to inform and educate on spaceflight and its history through one or more media". That should go a long way towards establishing reliability in that field. When doing a WP:BEFORE search for the Encyclopedia Astronautica you might want to consider that site and the other secondary source used in the German version of that article, and perhaps ping me if you are so kind. But that's another discussion. The Space Explorers also appear in another book, Fantastisches in dunklen Sälen. I can only see a preview though, which consists of two sentences that confirm the history and support by the space race climate. Maybe more, maybe not. Daranios (talk) 18:24, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Encyclopedia Astronautica is also worth checking out. Seems people who know something about it say it's reliable while those who don't get stuck on the self-published. I think a couple more sources along with evidence it has been cited in reliable sources (eg. academic papers) would go a long way. FWIW the article dates to March 2002 it is ancient nearing the Big Bang. -- GreenC 15:39, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have added to the reception section, also using another secondary source, an article from the Telepolis online magazine, which has about a paragraph on The Space Explorers. So I think what is now already in the article shows that secondary sources beat WP:WHYN, without even using all of them, or using them fully. Daranios (talk) 14:11, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Enough evidence to suggest this is worth keeping and enough reliable independent sources to pass GNG. The website http://www.thespaceexplorers.com/ contains a ton of fascinating information provided to the website by the makers of the film ie. reliable information as primary, but not inherently notable due to being self-published. -- GreenC 17:41, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:36, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per sources identified by Daranios. SpinningSpark 00:43, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.