Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The New Girl in Town

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete - If there is legitimate worry something doesn't exist, it cannot possibly meet WP:V. Prodego ^talk 22:16, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The New Girl in Town[edit]

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It has been proven, time and time again, on MANY Selena sites over the years, and even from Selena Quintanilla's father, himself, that this album DOES NOT exist. 'The New Girl in Town' is a long standing rumor within the Selena fandom that started back in the late 1990s. The songs listed as the tracks from the album were independently released singles from Cara Records (which is now all but defunct) in the state of Texas. At no point were these songs ever released, together, as a complete album.

I can tell you from looking at this article, that much of what is written is completely fabricated, and not true. There is a person by the name of 'Jona' who goes around editing all of Selena's pages with untruths that have been proven many times as being false. He thinks he knows all possible Selena facts, but he does not. He's only a good story teller, at best.

Also, the album cover posted is not real, either. It is a photoshopped image of Selena from the mid-1980s; no such album cover exists, because the album itself does not exist. :) This page needs to be taken down; it's needed to be deleted for a very long time. It's time to put all of these rumors to rest. If somebody wants to make a page with information about these songs as SINGLE releases, and not as an album, that would be fine. But the fans need to stop being fooled.

This article is 95% complete fabrication; all that is correct are the titles of the songs, who recorded them (Selena y Los Dinos), and who released them (Cara Records). Everything else is one big lie, and for that reason, I would like to see this article removed. MissouriSunshine (talk) 21:40, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹^Speak 11:37, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹^Speak 11:37, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I've corrected the formatting of the nomination, above, and will relist this debate - it does not appear in the log, nor is the article tagged as required. Consider this timestamp as day 1 of the debate, and proceed accordingly. No comment on the merits, though - on point of process - sources that contradict what is in the article would go a long way to proving the nominator's points. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 13:04, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing I say is false in this article (which is sourced) the title of this album (sourced by Joe Nick Patoski) is true. I do agree that its a made up album by fans since the family did indeed told everyone that it does not exist. However, since there aren't WP:RS from them or anyone else, I couldn't just say "this album was believed to be false" that's WP:OR. The artwork is from a Selena fan site that I placed a "non-free cover". Please do not insult me thanks. Best, Jona yo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 13:58, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to assume you meant to reply to the nominator and not to me. I asked that the nominator support his/her statements with sources. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 14:17, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I was replying to his/her comment(s). I do support the album is "fake" however, numerous publications state otherwise, I can't add what fans, friends and the family of Selena say. It has to be sourced. Best, Jona yo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 14:45, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey guys, it's me again. As for needing proof that the album is fake, well, think about it. Some people have said that the album had to be taken off of the market, because some copyrights for the songs couldn't be cleared. This couldn't ever be possible, because you need to have permission to clear ALL songs before an album can ever be released to the public. All Selena album covers from her earliest years have been released, except for this one. If it were real, it would have been released, too. Some people also try to say, it was remastered and released in 1990. This is also obviously false, because then we would know for sure, if the album existed or not, because Selena was already a star at this point, and the album would have been more mainstream.

Look at this website: http://www.selena-online.com/Thenewalbumhistoriaeng <-- it helps to verify a lot of things. It shows the original photoshopped album cover that got this whole mess of a rumor started. Then, if you click on this link, http://www.selena-online.com/LinkDiscographye.html <-- they ask Abraham himself, if the album is real. The interview is in Spanish, but basically, Abraham says that the album isn't real, and the title of 'The New Girl in Town' was meant to be the title of her DEBUT album, and not for anything else.

As for the editor of said Wikipedia page, AJona, I should have known it was him who created the page. You can't listen to this guy. He's been hanging around the Selena fandom for years, and he is known to make up information out of thin air, and try to pass it off as the truth. He's a good storyteller and all, but everything he says about Selena is a lie. He's tried before in the past to make it sound like he's close to the Quintanilla's, but he just isn't. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if HE was the one that started the rumor of this album, in the first place. He's very aggressive about having his opinion be heard (and is just very aggressive, period); you can't take this guy and his non-truths seriously. I'm not saying this to bash anyone, I'm saying this because it's the truth, and the truth needs to be out there.

My sources, if you will, being common sense for one, and for two, the Selena sites I just linked you to twice, aren't without reason. The Selena fansite I linked you to has been around for many, many years, and is highly reputable within the fandom itself. It's one of the few out there that doesn't spread around lies and half-truths like they're some kind of gospel. Plus, the Quintanilla family have said over and over that the album isn't real. Love them or hate them, regardless, if ANYONE should know if that album is real or not, it's the family. Why would they deny it? Had EMI Latin not screwed the Quintanilla family over in rights to Selena's songs years ago, they'd have released everything there is to release, by now. Granted, they're still trying their hardest to get all they can, out there. And if The New Girl in Town were in fact real, it would have either been released at the same time, or right after Selena's 1984 debut was re-released by Freddie Records, in 2002.

If my argument doesn't hold enough water, then I'm sorry. I think I've said all there is to be said, right now, about this topic. But I can tell you, the people who claim up and down that this album is real, never look for actual PROOF of it's existence. They just assume it's real, and try to beat it into people's heads, like they're brainwashed. The proof is all around us that this album is fake. There's no proof at all that it is real. I have all of Selena's albums in my possession, and TNGIT is not part of that collection, for obvious reasons. :) If I can find you even more proof, then I'll gladly show you, but sometimes, the best thing to do is just to sit and think about it.

Thanks, -MS — Preceding unsigned comment added by MissouriSunshine (talk • contribs) 23:30, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(1) fansites are not a reliable source. (2) Just because the father of Selena said something, does not make it true. We would need a WP:RS to indicate what he is saying is in fact true and not false. I do support that the album is indeed false/fake, I never once said it was true. However, here at Wikipedia we go with what the sources says, not what fans or the family states - this is an encyclopedia not a fanopedia. Again, please stop attacking me and comment in good faith as I am. I'm agreeing with you and you still are attacking me. Furthermore, I do not know the Quintanilla family nor would I even want to. I am a fan of Selena not her family and this is not a debate about myself, if you have anything to ask just simply calmly ask them on my talk page. Also that rumor started back in the late 90s, when I was just a child. Secondly, in the Joe Nick Patoski book (published in 1996), the album's title is mentioned. I was barely 4 years of age at the time of release. Best, Jona yo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 00:12, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Question AJona are you saying that you know that the album is fake, but there are no reliable sources for it? If so how do you know it is fake? And why would Selenas father not be a reliable source for his daughters albums? AIRcorn (talk) 04:24, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I mean I have no WP:RS that states the albums existence or nonexistence, but in my POV I do believe the album was made up by fans back in the 90s. The name "The New Girl in Town" can be found in the Joe Nick Patoski book published back in 1996 and the book I sourced on the article. Well its words against sources with her family. Her husband Chris Perez claims that he is not writing a book about Selena on his facebook page, however [1]. Selena's brother, A.B. Quintanilla III had stated he is not remixing Selena music on his official twitter account, however [2], [3], [4]. Selena's sister Suzette Quintanilla told fans early in the 2000s that there is not a single unreleased Selena song however Puede Ser (2004), Lo Dejo Solo (2007) [5], Feelings (Selena song) (2007). Selena's cousin Kathy Quintanilla also revealed that their family holds numerous unreleased Selena music. Selena's sister is also reluctant when she is asked by news reporters about any sign of unreleased music of her sister... Anyways, I just don't trust her family when it comes down to it. I prefer reliable sources found on the Internet, sad but its true. Best, Jona yo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 04:45, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Families can lie, but books can also make mistakes. I don't know, I am not seeing convincing evidence from either side that show that this is real or fake - can't access the books to check them and you have to be careful using fan sites. Besides that I am wondering about its notability, I can find no useful information on the net and if it was only released for two months there may be no significant coverage of it anyway per WP:NALBUMS. I see Selena is a WP:FA and mentions this album so that is encouraging. User:Secret appears to be a major contributor [6] so I will ask him to comment. AIRcorn (talk) 07:13, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually as Secret is up for adminship I don't feel it is a good time to bother him. It is early days so will see what other editors think first. AIRcorn (talk) 07:27, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I propose a merger at best, not a deletion. There's nothing on the net and Secret has the book (Joe Nick Patoski) that I used. He can verify that it is mentioned at the discography page. Best, Jona yo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 13:46, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - Ok, I can't fully digest the voluminous comments above, so as far as I can tell... Most of the references are from one book by one guy. The album is not available, nor are there any sources, apart from one guy, that say it was released. The song on Amazon says it was released in 2007. Obviously this track was recorded a long time ago, but that doesn't mean a full LP of this name was released. Since, even as the nominator suggests, this album has been an 'urban legend' in the Selena community for so long, I feel it has earned a SHORT mention here. And yes, this is basically a 'delete' vote, with a small variation. ~Pesco^{So say•we all} 03:51, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 10:06, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per Pesco. Not too concerned about the fake or not argument, just the lack of sources either way. AIRcorn (talk) 12:12, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - (Selena + Album) = worthy of inclusion in the parallel Pop Culture Compendium attached to the serious encyclopedia known as Wikipedia. Give the people what they want. Carrite (talk) 01:59, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That rationale doesn't contain one whit of sense. Why would you want an article for something that is quite obviously fake? Tarc (talk) 21:11, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - However, the album never impacted (never had the songs) on any music chart. I think a merge to Selena albums discography is more suitable. Best, Jona yo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 02:10, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Whether it is a hoax or some sort of fan-created mix/bootleg, we can't have an article for an album that simply does not exist. Nothing about this album appears in any Selena website that I can find, what does show up are either clones of the Wikipedia article or barebones entries to user-submitted sites. If someone has a credible source other than one guy's questionable book, I'm all ears. Tarc (talk) 21:11, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note - This was rather unabashedly canvassed at WP:AN. Please take any non-policy-based votes as success of the canvas campaign to keep it. Hasteur (talk) 21:33, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above deletion debate is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the talk page of either this nomination or the nominated user). No further edits should be made to this page.