Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Flag of Punishment

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Galneryus. I am only going to close this about "The Flag of Punishment", as clear concensus for the other albums has not been established - although new AfDs are welcome on those should someone want to do so. The consensus is that this album does not meet the criteria for a stand-alone article - however, rather than deleting, I am going to redirect it to the band's article, as this would seem more helpful to users of Wikipedia than a "hole"! -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 09:42, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Flag of Punishment and others[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Article on a non-notable album; it does not meet the criteria set out in WP:NALBUMS--it is little more than a tracklisting, and there seem to be no references in existence (searching for Google Web doesn't help). Considering the recent history, I thought I'd bring it to AfD. Drmies (talk) 02:26, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

IP below correctly points out that the band's other albums suffer from the same lack of notability: Advance to the Fall, Beyond the End of Despair..., One for All – All for One, Reincarnation (Galneryus album), Resurrection (Galneryus album). Does anyone know how to add those? BTW, I note that they seem to get more optimistic in their album titles as time goes by; there may be hope yet for the world. Drmies (talk) 02:35, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. 69.181.249.92 (talk) 02:31, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
delete Never heard of them--intelati 02:36, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Neither have I, but that is not usually an accepted reason for deletion. Please see Wikipedia:Afd#How_to_discuss_an_AfD, and WP:N. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 02:41, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. —DAJF (talk) 02:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not seeing any evidence that these two albums charted on Oricon, but I do find their site a bit hard to navigate and I have failed to find such evidence before. (Haven't checked the others.) Per WP:MUSIC, the SOP in this case is to merge the albums up to the band (which is indeed notable by WP:MUSIC C5) -- and that's what I endorse: merge to Galneryus. —Quasirandom (talk) 03:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC) ETA clarification: this comment was made when only The Flag of Punishment and Advance to the Fall were on the ticket, and applies only to them -- am withholding comment on the later additions for the moment. —Quasirandom (talk) 13:56, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - I've tried doing that and had it reverted. It's my preferred way of dealing with non-notable songs/albums, but fans seem to resist such efforts... 69.181.249.92 (talk) 04:00, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Sometimes it takes an AfD to enforce such a merge. —Quasirandom (talk) 13:56, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Reaching #161 isn't really notable. みんな空の下 (トーク) 10:25, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I'm neither a fan of this band nor totally familiar with the notability criteria applied to music albums, but we have two albums in this bundle (Resurrection (Galneryus album) and One for All – All for One) that have had tracks/singles used for TV theme tunes, and it looks like three of the band's albums had covers designed by the well-known Japanese designer/illustrator Yoshitaka Amano. Is the bar for album notability so high that such album articles all get thrown out with the bathwater because they have been bundled together for deletion? Incidentally, I have added the Oricon rankings to each album article, and while the band's first album only reached #161, later albums ranked higher, with their most recent one (Resurrection (Galneryus album)) ranking #35. Is that still not high enough? Hmmm... --DAJF (talk) 10:58, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I personally don't think that the cover designer really affects the notability unless the cover gets noted in reliable sources. Being used for TV themes and charting above a certain level, which I'd peg as around #40 in a market as large as Japan, sound like markers of notability to me. That said, currently the guideline for albums is the general notability guidelines, which means that a charted album can make a band notable but not the album itself. —Quasirandom (talk) 13:56, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Charting is not necessary for album notability, per WP:ALBUMS. It is a necessary for songs (assuming they don't meet WP:N or have multiple covers), but not for albums. Rlendog (talk) 23:08, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:07, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per WP:NALBUMS: "In general, if the musician or ensemble that recorded an album is considered notable, then officially released albums may have sufficient notability to have individual articles on Wikipedia." That the article is currently little more than a track listing is not a reason to delete per WP:NALBUMS: "Album articles with little more than a track listing may be more appropriately merged into the artist's main article or discography article, space permitting." I would not necessarily object to a merge, and see absolutely no rationale why there should not be at least a redirect, but delete seems inappropriate. Rlendog (talk) 23:04, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget 01:18, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.