Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Teufels Großmutter

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 15:09, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Teufels Großmutter

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

It's a one series TV show which ran for 12 episodes. I don't have access to German-language media of that era, but I can't find anything to suggest it was particularly beloved and noted then or since. The article on de.wiki doesn't appear to offer much more information and nothing which would satisfy the GNG here [1] JMWt (talk) 08:27, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television and Germany. JMWt (talk) 08:27, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep [2] [3] [4] [5] This has enough coverage for a start class article, and stars notable actors. We'd be better off having it than not.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:38, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Without even getting into a discussion about reliability of those sources, they are all extremely short. One is one line. Also, to add, until I recently added the date there wasn't even basic information about the subject on the page. Given that it has existed since 2011, surely that's sufficient time to have gotten beyond being a start class article. JMWt (talk) 11:47, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody is working on German TV series on English Wikipedia that's why. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:39, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete All I'm finding (and including those linked above) are short listings, either IMDB-like, sales sites, or "what's on TV today." If anyone has access to reviews in reliable sources, please link. I'll check back. Lamona (talk) 01:23, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Per Blofeld. Even trivial TV series are almost always notable because they are almost always discussed in newspapers or magazines. A search in Google Books shows some coverage too. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:01, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Reading some comments on some sites and people are saying things (translated) like "I loved watching this series as a child. It brings back memories." and "This series is simply cult. You can't compare it with today's television world." Released on DVD in 2007 and has also been released on Blu-ray, so it's not as if the series is a forgotten one either. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:50, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, "I loved watching this as a child" is not one of the WP notability criteria. We need non-routine independent articles, like reviews (substantial). Aymatth2 - did you find any books with lengthy articles about the TV show? Most of what I've seen is the name of the show listed in articles about various actors. We need 2-3 strong sources about the show, with strong meaning not just a few sentences in a television guide. Lamona (talk) 00:22, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is a sort of "guilty until proved innocent" argument. It may be hard to find online versions of reviews in the German magazines and newspapers published in the pre-internet period when the series was being aired. It is extremely unlikely that the press completely ignored the series. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:40, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And it was ZDF, one of the main channels in Germany...♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:44, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We still need sources, that's the rule. I didn't make it up. Lamona (talk) 17:24, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 13:20, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, sources are all trivial or minimal mentions. There don't seem to be any reviews of the DVD release. Oaktree b (talk) 15:48, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment given that this series was pre-internet, does anyone involved in this deletion debate have any access whatsoever to historical paper sources in Germany? An early evening show on one of the main TV channels back in the era that there were only about 3 channels is not something to delete lightly. Elemimele (talk) 22:09, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I did some searching in German newspapers and magazines and they do retrieve articles going back to before the time of this series. I didn't find the series mentioned, but my German is limited to few words so I was just looking for this series name to pop up. Someone with the language ability should do the search. I also didn't know which sources were likely to carry TV show reviews - I did Der Spiegel and Die Zeit and that was a random selection. Lamona (talk) 16:51, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There were reviews in the major newspapers. I added some quotes. You won't find full articles about the series from 1986 in most of the online newspaper sitesm but they do exist. The source for the quotes is from OneGate Media which states "We are a top German distribution and licensing company for film and television. Founded over 60 years ago as a subsidiary of NDR, we belong to the Studio Hamburg Group, one of the leading production houses in Germany." ♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:16, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The only source that isn't just a listing/name check is the onegate media, and that is pretty thin. I note that there are quotes in the section Reception that are not sourced, yet they presumably come from somewhere. I looked at WP:MOSTV and it does seem to require major reviews to meet GNG. WP:NTVNATL unfortunately isn't very informative; I had hoped it would provide guidance. Lamona (talk) 20:11, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per Dr. Blofeld--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:22, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, substantial reviews were added by Dr. Blofeld. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:45, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per Dr. Blofeld.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 23:20, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. I wish I'd been able to shake loose the originals of those press reviews, or more about its place in Horney's career (one of her last roles). But I was able to add more on the production and broadcast history, and trusting that those reviews are real, that's sufficient coverage in reliable sourcesto establish notability. Yngvadottir (talk) 10:19, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.