Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Teaching of Jesus about little children

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. ✗plicit 14:49, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Teaching of Jesus about little children[edit]

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Article fails WP:GNG for lack of independent non-trivial sourcing. User:Namiba 14:47, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. User:Namiba 14:47, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Seriously? Can anyone familiar with the Western tradition even assert with a straight face that this topic fails WP:GNG? I suspect a WP:CIR fail here, and that's not trying to be ad hominem, just entirely mystified about how anyone could think this nomination makes sense, regardless of the lack of documented RS'es in the article. Jclemens (talk) 14:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's also a WP:SYNTHESIS until you prove that there are multiple, independent, non-trivial sources on the topic. You can claim whatever you like about myself, but you also haven't provided any evidence.--User:Namiba 15:21, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry if that came across as an ad hominem, but incredulity can sound that way. To put it simply, everything attributed to speech of Jesus of Nazareth in any canonical Christian writing has approaching two millennia of commentary. The fact that the various citations are not in this article doesn't mean a reasonable person would conclude that the topic might possibly be non notable. Jclemens (talk) 03:22, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bible-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:30, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~. I'm not experienced in researching topics about the Bible, but God has clearly failed me in my searches for good coverage about this. This regular Google search just gives you a bunch of blogs (of which the reliability I don't know of) only mentioning the time Jesus talked about children, and blogs and legitimate sources like Christianity Today talking about the line "Jesus Loves the Little Children" (and man, would that sound creepy out of context), which isn't a line from the Bible but from a hymn C. Herbert Woolston wrote. GBooks just gives me a bunch of bizarre children's book that use that line as their titles, and thus establishes no notability for this topic. Only one result in this Google Scholar cites the passages currently in the wiki, and the rest talk about different Jesus topics while only using the phrase "little children" not to talk about these passages. I may change my !vote to a Weak keep if this thesis qualifies as academic coverage that establishes notability. 👨x🐱 (talk) 18:57, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that qualifies as academic coverage since the bibliography has zero academic sources.--User:Namiba 19:39, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed my !vote to Keep due to academic sources provided by other editors here, but rename to Teachings of Jesus about children; not really seeing why the title needs to be specifically "little" children, as the provided sources just describe and label Jesus' teachings as just on children in general. Additionally, WP:TNT; since I'm noticing the sources in this discussion cite Bible lines different from what the Wikipedia article in its current state cites, it's very likely violations of WP:SYNTH, WP:NPOV, and WP:OR are going on; apart from one sentence about an analysis by Heinrich Meyer, the article does not use verification from independent sources stating the lines were about or related to little children. Thus, the article needs to be re-written with citations from academic material. 👨x🐱 (talk) 17:58, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep; a Google search will produce a phenomenal number of hits for this, because it is a key concept in Christianity, and seen as important by a huge range of Christian churches. Of course it's easy to write off all of these sources as biased or primary, but you have to ask yourself whether the sheer number of them, and their range, hints at the notability of the subject. But for those who want unbiased sources, here's a BBC-bite-sized-guide revision topic on one of the Jesus/little-children stories[1], which shows that the subject is worthy of exam syllabuses; here's a study-guide from a multi-faith site with no particular alliance to Christianity, as evidence that Jesus' teaching about little children is seen as a notable feature to those studying world religions [2], and as just one example of the thousands produced by Christian organisations, here's the Taizé organisation's take on it (Taizé are well-known and well-respected) [3]. I'm not saying the article is perfect (it could certainly do with referencing) but to delete it as not notable (that's what GNG is) would be jaw-droppingly weird, to the extent that this Afd feels like it might be intended to make a point. Elemimele (talk) 20:09, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. That one is well known and well described in sources; that's why this page exists on a number of other languages. Sources such as [4] or [5] do exist. My very best wishes (talk) 02:40, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Some deletion nominations continue to amaze me. Do we really have editors of an English-language encyclopedia who don't realise that "suffer little children" has become a commonplace phrase, and that it originated in a translation of a biblical report of Jesus's words? Phil Bridger (talk) 09:01, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I have never heard "suffer little children" in any of my everyday conversations with other people, so I am not aware that it is a commonplace phrase. 👨x🐱 (talk) 18:16, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - If your education is limited to everyday conversation then I can believe that you have not heard the phrase. People editing an encyclopedia should not have such limited horizons. The USA is much more a Christian country than the UK, so I find it difficult to believe that a quotation from the Christian bible is not more well-known there, rather than less. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:13, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as significant coverage in multiple reliable sources has been identified in this discussion so that WP:GNG is passed and deletion is unnecessary in my view. Also as a sidenote suffer little children is a common phrase in the UK broadsheets, imv Atlantic306 (talk)
- So it's commonplace in the UK? I live in the United States, New York state to be specific, so that might explain it. 👨x🐱 (talk) 01:04, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep in support of affirmative arguments set out above and the fact that the articles on Matthew 18 and Matthew 19 direct the reader here rather than reproduce the material within those articles themselves. However, development is needed, and more secondary references are available. Popular usage of the phrase "suffer little children" is missing from the article. Luke 18 lacks coverage of verses 15-17, which could be addressed by adding there "See Teaching of Jesus about little children", and Gospel of Thomas does not refer to Saying 22. - BobKilcoyne (talk) 03:34, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've now added this coverage in Luke 18. BobKilcoyne (talk) 06:20, 20 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep vote is very clear in here. It is clearly one of the concepts of Christianity. SunDawn talk 15:18, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Definitely a notable topic. Rubbish computer Ping me or leave a message on my talk page 11:59, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.