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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. -- Black Falcon (Talk) 07:09, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tangeline[edit]

Tangeline (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - (View log)

Delete. This is a senseless article. First of all, the characters of Todd Manning and Evangeline Williamson were never a couple. The two briefly flirted and had fleeting romantic angst, but they were never officially paired with one another. Second of all, the name “Tangeline” is a fan base tagging; nothing officially sanctioned by any real authority. Finally, it’s redundant and trite for a fictional soap opera couple to have a Wikipedia article. The details of their relationship can be stated on the characters Wikipedia article.-WikiTweak 07:54, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. Completely unreferenced, even as a fan-based phenomenon. A Google search does demonstrate that enjoys some currency among fans - a lot of hits to Myspace and other blogs, Youtube and various forum posts, but no reliable sources to demonstrate to satisfy notability. Arkyan • (talk) 15:59, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep. Confused reasons for deletion does not make sense and mostly not true.

  • Senseless article- Why? Wikipedia has articles like this, that is where the idea came from, senseless by definition means: mindless and pointless, what makes this article so different that it is mindless and pointless?
Two wrongs do not make a right. David Fuchs (talk / frog blast the vent core!) 01:38, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The two briefly flirted and had fleeting romantic angst- Actually no the two flirted ever since 2003 which has been stated and spoken about by Trevor St. John and the directors of the show One Life to Live, but they officially became a couple in 2007. SO again false claims they never briefly flirted but have for years and no fleeting romantic angst but compassion and feelings.
Angst on a TV show is notable? Who knew? This doesn't change the article's notability. David Fuchs (talk / frog blast the vent core!) 01:38, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • they were never officially paired with one another - According to the show they are portrayed on One Life to Live although they kissed sometime in March they officially become a couple in April.
  • “Tangeline” is a fan base tagging- Fine I will change the article title
  • nothing officially sanctioned by any real authority- Like I said earlier based on the directors of the show and the show itself they were a couple.
  • Finally, it’s redundant and trite for a fictional soap opera couple to have a Wikipedia article- Again let me state the idea came from the fact there were other couples for and near the Supercouple status.
  • no reliable sources to demonstrate to satisfy notability- Wow there are tons of videos, which is better than actual writing on a web page that shows them as a couple
See WP:RS David Fuchs (talk / frog blast the vent core!) 01:38, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I really think this article should stay for many reasons, it is depicting the couple and relationship of Todd Manning and Evangeline Williamson, which they were a great couple and an inspiration to many. There are not many publicly interracial relationships on TV shows, and I strongly believe that there should be an article that represents one of the major interracial couples on television; there are many fictional couples and supercouples articles on Wikipedia but none other like Todd Manning and Evangeline Williamson, and none with interracial couple of this manner. There is no real reason to delete this article, and keep interracial couples in the dust and forgotten. Mainly Todd Manning and Evangeline Williamson were an amazing couple and showing the world that interracial couples are okay and gives inspiration to all the interracial couples and families out there, and should not take that inspiration away because it would be pointless and not nice. Please keep the article the name will change.--Migospia☆ 21:43, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: Speculative and superfluous - Enotiva 01:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment:
Please look those words up before you can an article about an interracial couple Speculative and superfluous--Migospia☆ 01:20, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Simply... not... needed. Characters, if notable enough, have their own articles. otherwise they get folded into List of articles. But this is superfluous to say the least. All the article does is recite the plot and give unsourced trivia. David Fuchs (talk / frog blast the vent core!) 01:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. On/Off flirting and a brief kiss doesn’t make two fictional characters a fictional item. These two characters involvement never moved past a preliminary stage, which basically makes the article deceptive and forged.Stavdash 01:50, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Read my commments because eveything said here I have proven otherwise, look into your guys actions please and think about this, because no one is taking this seriously--Migospia☆ 02:31, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


You guys also keep saying fictional couples, but like I said if only you have read there a lot of fictional couples articles on Wikipedia, just once there is an interracial all of a sudden oh my gosh we have to delete this under no reasoning--Migospia☆ 02:33, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete -- These two aren't now, nor were they ever a couple by any measure. That hysterical "interracial" jargon that Migospia loves to spout ad nauseum in defense of these two has absolutely no significance whatsoever to the subject at hand. Quite frankly, the article is bogus and needs to be done away with. Let's please keep that fangirl crap OFF of Wikipedia. --- The Real One Returns 03:04, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as non-notable fictional non-couple. Ford MF 04:02, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


I suggest we find some non rascist and people who don't hate me in here--Migospia☆ 04:20, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Right let's just keep all the other white couples from soap opera although Wiki is not a soap guide. I am just saying a couple of people voting already hate me and oe is racist, and as well how can you vote to delete this and not be racist since no one has given valid reason to delete I am just a lot confused there it is like you might as ell come out and it say, it is because Tangeline is a production of an interracial couple and the media is against interracial couples, people don't think about that but that is racist and very much not right--Migospia †♥ 01:07, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • That was almost comical. You paranoid delusional, you. I suggest you review this log again. You're the *only* person who has brought up race. Doesn't matter if they are purple and green, Todd and Evangeline were NEVER a couple. Just accept the fact that this article is GOING to be deleted, and that nothing you have said in defense of it (particularly those pointless, hyper hysterical rants/lies about people being racist) has made any sense or will stop the inevitable. --- The Real One Returns 01:44, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Real One Returns, please you should not even be allowed to vote for what you said to me a while ago. And no personal attacks, by saying You paranoid delusional, you

And yes read the article you apprently for no reason (or a hidden reason) want to delete and then go buy or search for videos of them together and Evangeline has been referred to as Todd's girlfriend and they were dating. --Migospia †♥ 02:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete As noted, the term "Tangeline" isn't really verifiable as per WP:VERIFY as it appears only in scattered blog entries, and a brief flirtation between two soap opera characters doesn't seem notable enough to warrant a separate article. --Wingsandsword 02:20, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you had READ above I said I would change the article name, please can someone ANYONE give me a real reason to delete this article?--Migospia †♥ 02:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


GIVE REASON--Migospia †♥ 03:02, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Delete ? For no given reason?

  • Comment I am going to say this once. Except in very special cases (Luke Spencer and Laura Webber transcended soap operas), soap opera couples can and should be discussed in the individual character articles. Go ahead. Check my edit history. I've said the same thing about other soap couple articles. Wikipedia is not the Soap Opera Guide. Your continued insistence that opposition to your viewpoint is racist will only serve to get you blocked. DarkAudit 05:59, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Both characters are current, and the (is it/isn't it) relationship appears to provide a dynamic to the series. I find the argument that the article title being a fan derived wording fallacious, in that the article is far more easily found on that basis by a fan (obviously the most likely reader). As it links from both characters articles I think it justified. LessHeard vanU 10:35, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment My concern here isn't racism: it's the idea that something more popular with women than with men might be considered automatically and without question immensely less notable than something that's more popular with men than with women. From some of the comments I get the impression that having articles on subjects more popular with women may even be considered embarrassing or stupid by some editors. This isn't new to AfD (for example, the AfD on Kim Kardashian had some of the same comments) but it really goes against WP:CSB. If this pairing is being talked about by independent, notable third parties (and not just outside of the soap opera world, either) it's notable enough for Wikipedia. --Charlene 11:03, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and merge relevant info into the two characters' articles. Having a separate article isn't needed nor warranted. And Migospia☆, please stop accusing people of racism for stating this view. While I could point out a ton of systemic bias that has occurred over the years at Wikipedia, in this case the article simply isn't notable enough to keep. --Alabamaboy 12:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Accusing people of racism and/or sexism isn't particularly productive to this discussion. What should matter is how notable the subject is, and not being a soap fan myself I have no idea on this. I do tend to agree with other comments to the effect that it generally makes more sense to mention the couple within articles on the separate characters involved, and/or on the program as a whole, rather than as a separate article just on the couple, except perhaps in the handful of cases where a particular couple has been heavily noted as part of the general pop culture (like General Hospital's Luke and Laura, a couple I've even heard of myself despite not following soaps at all). *Dan T.* 13:56, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Here's another AfD on a soap couple who both happen to be white which I started myself to see what the consensus is. If it is deleted (and that's the way it's going) there will a lot more to follow. So this particular article isn't being singled out. Anyway, delete for the same reasons as the AfD I've just quoted - this is a big wedge of plot summary and nothing else. EliminatorJR Talk 16:00, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Ford MF and nom Localzuk(talk) 19:36, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge and redirect to One Life to Live. Corvus cornix 20:39, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: EliminatorJR- Yes but wheres an interracial one? There is none that I know of on here on Wikipedia, and I just think there should be one and this article to me is complete and referenced. I was not accsuin people of racism and/or sexism, and deleting this article without any real reasons also is not productive to this.--Migospia †♥ 20:44, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all, merge, redirect: Fine since the issue here is not race but a Soap Opera couple delete of the article would be okay but then we should delete the other 26+ as well since they apparently clutter up Wikipedia and such and are senseless articles and are speculative and superfluous and simply... not... needed. Merge with One Life to Live and redirect there--Migospia †♥ 21:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Correct, and I'm working my way through the category at the moment. I think there are a few notable ones, so I'm not going to AfD the whole lot in one go, that way lies confusion. EliminatorJR Talk 21:33, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

:And why is this not notable? And delete this one last not first--Migospia †♥ 00:38, 4 June 2007 (UTC) Rockpocket-Wow, please READ everything all my reasons for keeping the article no where it says ILIKEIT and look at reasons for delete, they are saying IDONTLIKEIT...again other way around--Migospia †♥ 00:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. Migospia, I wish I had gotten to this article at the beginning of its deletion nomination to help you with its format, but it seems that this article will now be deleted, and I'm currently busy working on improving other soap articles and or soap couple articles. I will state that I don't feel that the media is against "interracial" couples. In fact, dating someone "outside of your race" isn't all that taboo these days [1], although I can't see why it would be. Also, we see some "interracial" coupling on television and or in movies.
    Even the Disney Channel show Lizzie McGuire had an interracial date once (where Gordo dated Brooke, portrayed as a black girl, in the episode Gordo and the Girl); the race aspect there wasn't even commented on in the episode (or the Wikipedia article about it), unlike what the situation would likely be in earlier decades: in the '50s it would be unthinkable to have an interracial date at all; in the '60s a progressive producer might want to have one but it would be killed by network censors; in the '70s it would be done as part of the "social relevancy" fad and feature lots of extreme reactions from other characters on the race issue; in the '80s it would be a "Very Special Episode" attacking bigotry. But by now it's just a matter-of-fact thing not even particularly notable. *Dan T.* 16:05, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


  • The reason this article is being considered for deletion is because it doesn't fit the notability standards for a couple, soap opera or not, on Wikipedia. I'm a participant of Wikipedia: WikiProject Soap Operas, and you can read that to better inform yourself on these matters. Flyer22 10:43, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well I have no idea what you guys consider notable or not but I was told otherwise and that reason fits, they should all go--Migospia †♥ 17:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh. Read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. And WP:OWN. You're still taking this far too personally. I've had articles I've worked hard on deleted, even after I thought I'd fixed them. It's not the end of the world. DarkAudit 18:05, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sigh. Read the article. And read the deletion log. And who are you to say I am to this far to personally, I am taking it personal because the type of article it is, but too far? I am just trying to handle this the best way I can and from reading above apparently the only issue that it is a Soap Article and if the show is notable enough to have a page of it and even if the actor and or charcters are notable enouh to have their own page fine I am okay with that, but for ALL TV fictional supercouple and couple articles delete, that is what I got from above because no one was giving me any real reason till someone gave me that and that reason makes sense.--Migospia †♥ 00:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, any useful information in the article should be included in the articles on the individual characters. NawlinWiki 22:21, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Migospia - just because Wikipedia has some unnotable articles doesn't mean it should have more. What determines notability is the article's content itself, not the content of other articles. This article just doesn't meet wikipedia's notability standards. --danielfolsom 00:03, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well I agree I just thought it was notable enough, I do not even like or watch soaps and I knew about them, but I still think it was a good article--Migospia †♥ 00:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Migospia, some editors gave you a true reason as to why they choose to delete this article. My post above on "interracial" couples, as well as what the guidelines are for a Supercouple on Wikipedia were to point out why I feel that "race" is not why this article is being considered for deletion. Let's just say that was the reason, it still doesn't take away from the fact that this article doesn't meet Wikipedia standards. I don't know how else to explain it to you, other than to again advise you to look at Wikipedia: WikiProject Soap Operas.

If you will read over that, or take a look at "my" article J.R. and Babe, which was nominated for deletion as well, then spared because it later provided creation, real-world impact, and reliable references to validate its claims, then you'll hopefully understand why the Tangeline article was nominated for deletion. I really do know how you feel on having an article that you've worked so hard on nominated for deletion, plenty of editors here understand that, but I (as well as some of them) learned (and am still improving on) what it takes to have a good and or great article on Wikipedia. Your article needs to at least be notable enough to stay on Wikipedia, even if it isn't at "good" status. Please know that I have nothing against you and certainly not "interracial" couples, but "your" article is lack-luster, and that's not an attack against you personally. Perhaps once you've gathered the right material in which to ensure that this article is valid in remaining on Wikipedia, as I can help you with that, if the reliable resources are indeed out there for this couple, then this article can be re-created, because as it seems now...this article will be deleted. If the reliable resources are out there for this couple, then -- as I just stated -- I can surely help you with this article, and it can be re-created at a later time. Flyer22 00:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know JR and Babe did not impact me, but yes of course it did hurt that this get nominated for deletion but I thought I had good reasons for keeping it around, but the comments on this page hurt a lot more since a lot did not state a reason for delete especially the person who wanted to delete it in the first place, and I read on the deletion process that *Anyone acting in good faith can contribute to the discussion* to me that leaves 10 of the people on this page out, since they were not acting in good faith at all, I mean two have major vendettas against me, one later VERY rude, the others just gave reasons no i don't like it delete type reasons come on that is not good faith! But, whatever I am sure Wikipeida is favourable in many cases and it will get deleted because the majority of people not acting in good faith swayed everything else, fine I get it, sort of. It would have been easier if I did not know 3 of the people on the page not good ways as well if the reasons made more sense, like although semi notable not notable enough because there is not much information sites on them or such, but no too flaky, my gosh are you serious? so yes it sucked majorly it got nominated for del but what sucked more are the reasons for delete and comments and 2 of the people have a vendetta against me so anytime I'm getting fried they would jump in....

  • but we should just del and merge/redirect this already because too many are enjoying this already no need to drag it on, even though the name one just got into the scope of some WikiProjects--Migospia †♥ 05:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I get that J.R. and Babe may not have impacted you. There are certainly some fictional popular couples and supercouples that did not impact me either. I'm just letting you know that if "your" article can provide the type of sources that Wikipedia requires, "your" article on Tangeline can always be recreated later, well, under the name of Todd Manning and Evangeline Williamson, but only if it provides the type of sources and references in which Wikipedia requires. Flyer22 06:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Fine, whatever, *I* understand. The other got deleted with no log? --Migospia†♥ 05:30, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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