Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Swingin' Utters

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The possibility of merging the albums into a discography is an editorial one. There is no consensus to delete, though. Black Kite (talk) 20:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Swingin' Utters[edit]

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Non-notable band. Lots of discography articles (these might be deletable too), but there's no independent sourcing on any of it. Their own site is generally linked (WP:SPS) and there's some coverage at Allmusic to show that the band exists, but there's no reviews or comment on the band to show any attempt at meeting WP:N or WP:V. Some of these articles have been tagged as unreferenced for over 4 years.

Album articles

Andy Dingley (talk) 19:51, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. There's a bio and seven album reviews at Allmusic, and coverage from City Weekly, Metro Active, the Free Lance Star, CMJ New Music Report. The articles may be undersourced and it may be appropriate to combine the album articles into a discography, but I see no reason for deletion. --Michig (talk) 11:56, 23 September 2012 (UTC) Six albums released by Fat Wreck Chords is also a pretty good indication of notability. --Michig (talk) 12:11, 23 September 2012 (UTC) See also chart placing, canoe.ca. --Michig (talk) 12:24, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:44, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:44, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge all albums to band article. Stuartyeates (talk) 22:13, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No major label, no significant chart positions, no awards, no significant sales, no gold/platinum certifictions, does not meet WP:MUSICBIO and therefore is WP:NN. Gotta have more than been around for a while Яεñ99 (talk) 03:34, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

MUSICBIO doesn't require any of those. --Michig (talk) 09:28, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The shortcut WP:MUSICBIO / WP:MUSBIO / WP:BAND most certainly does require those. Take a look at the link info you are trying to assess, all three terminate at the same wiki shortcut :) Яεñ99 (talk) 12:27, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That guideline lists twelve criteria by which a band or artist would be considered notable. None of them are individually required. Any one would indicate notability. You selected only five of those twelve criteria. The band passes criteria 1 ( the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself), 2 (Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart) and 5 (Has released two or more albums on a major label or on one of the more important indie labels), and arguably also 6 and 7. The subject also passes WP:GNG. --Michig (talk) 12:36, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Swingin' Utters and Merge all the album articles into the band. - There's a lot of source material for Swingin' Utters, from Philadelphia Inquirer August 2, 1995 (before they signed with Fat Wreck Chords in 1996) to at least Arkansas Times June 23, 2011. Thrasher July 1, 2002, there's a bunch of reprints of news articles at reocities.com, Register-Guard May 16, 2003, U-WIRE July 15, 2004, Boston Herald January 10, 2005, Las Vegas Review-Journal February 18, 2005. There some more. There's a lot of notices where they will be playing next, which usually don't offer much in the way of new information to add to a Wikipedia article. There didn't seem to be any interest in looking for reliable source information before creating each of the album Wikipedia articles. The Swingin' Utters article can expand to cover all the reliable source info on the topic. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 02:02, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Those media mentions are performance announcements/stubs, and not reliable third party sources that can be used to establish notability - not to mention some are references for sub-groups/alternate groups that are not The Utters themselves. They describe some of the when's and what type of music, but give no inherent notable inclusions. An example of a notable announcement would be "Metal Blade's new signature artist Swingin' Utters play Astrodome" in the Houston Times, or "Swinging Utters celebrate their new release on PWL records by playing set with surviving member of The Ramones at CBGB" in The New York Times. Simply having a bunch of albums released on minor labels and playing in clubs, etc does not establish notability. None of the labels mentioned for The Utters are important indie majors in history (ex: Def Jam, Factory, Wax On, Rhino, Metal Blade, PWL, etc). Of note, Fat Wreck Chords states; The label has never been a member of the Recording Industry Association of America as indicated on the frequently asked questions portion of the label's website: Are we a member? Not only no, but FUCK NO! LOTS of bands have tons of records released as minor issues or as personal projects, and are simply not notable for them. A "significant chart" is usually Top 40 on the particular chart (AOR, TOP 40, Alternative, Adult, Urban, etc) and I don't see that notation anywhere in the available information (We generally call charts at >40 "stiffs", though some still have an influence there). I don't see where 6 or 7 come into play at all, as the majority of the links are dead for the artists, and the others don't meet prominence or notability either - one's claim to fame is "having lost control of his bladder & later went to Taco Bell with friends and paid for his food with wet bills", one is described simply as a drummer/bassist, and another is from Philadelphia and got his start working in a mail room - those do not meet the suggested criteria. Still WP:NN as above =/ Яεñ99 (talk) 06:28, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Michig. With those multiple reviews by Allmusic and a number of in-depth articles, general notability has been established. De728631 (talk) 13:13, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.