Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Steve Cilladi (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of Los Angeles Dodgers coaches#Bullpen catcher. Consensus that the article does not meet the notability guidelines, but a redirect to the list where he is mentioned is the most supported option here. Davewild (talk) 11:34, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Steve Cilladi[edit]

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Bullpen catchers are not inherently notable and must pass GNG. The last time this was AFD'd, the bullpen catcher issue had not been resolved. However, many of the keep votes claimed that Cilladi passed GNG based on one lengthly profile from truebluela.com. Several voters insisted that the coverage was enough to pass GNG, although nobody ever bothered to actually improve the article based on the one source provided. I'm sorry, but one feature profile simply doesn't confer notability. Mellowed Fillmore (talk) 15:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Mellowed Fillmore (talk) 15:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Mellowed Fillmore (talk) 15:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. Mellowed Fillmore (talk) 15:13, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

While I still feel these guys should be kept based on the fact that most of them are actual coaches, I realize i lost that battle.. however in this case there is a target available that mentions him so re-direct to List of Los Angeles Dodgers coaches. Spanneraol (talk) 15:45, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

He's not a coach, so it doesn't make sense to redirect him to the list of coaches. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 23:43, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

He is a coach.. your opinion notwithstanding. Spanneraol (talk) 02:53, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The bullpen coach is a coach. The bullpen catcher is support staff. We've been through this a dozen times already. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 03:03, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes and you are still factually wrong as you have been all the previous times. Spanneraol (talk) 03:42, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Redirecting this article to a list of Dodgers coaches would be in contravention of the consensus that bullpen catchers are not coaches. Mellowed Fillmore (talk) 04:01, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If I was "factually wrong," you'd be able to cite dozens of links that would result in adding bullpen catchers to the list of people presumed notable by BASE/N. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 04:05, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I did in the previous discussion provide many links identifying them as coaches, you simply ignored them and now Mellowed has a hard on for deleting these guys and I know the "flock" is following so i'm not going out of my way to try to save them... I'm just pointing out that I still disagree. Spanneraol (talk) 04:16, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, all I am doing is following consensus. If some of the subjects pass GNG, fine. What was the point of having the notability discussion if nobody was going to act on the result? Mellowed Fillmore (talk) 04:21, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your examples weren't even applicable. You cited a couple former major league players who currently serve as bullpen catchers and tried to claim that all bullpen catchers were similar. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 04:42, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No.. I provided multiple examples of where the MLB teams themselves referred to these guys as coaches. Spanneraol (talk) 15:57, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails GNG. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 23:43, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the arguments posted in the original AfD. Alex (talk) 09:06, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to the Dodgers' coaches article per Spanneraol. I agree the guy doesn't meet the GNG and he's not notable, but that's what list articles are for. Nha Trang ^Allons! 18:22, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There is a clear consensus that bullpen catchers are not coaches. Merging/redirecting this article to a list of coaches would fly in the face of that consensus. Mellowed Fillmore (talk) 02:10, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My clear eyeballs see the fellow's name listed on the Dodgers' website under a banner of "Managers and Coaches." You want to argue with the Dodgers' organization that they shouldn't be allowed to call the guy a coach because a dozen guys on Wikipedia think he ought not to be called one, be my guest: this is the link to e-mail the Dodgers' front office [1].
In the meantime, since I'm not as hung up as some people seem to be about whether his title has the letters "c-o-a-c-h" in it or what number his uniform has on it, I'm sticking with my vote, thanks. Nha Trang ^Allons! 20:14, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome. Mellowed Fillmore (talk) 04:17, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And actually, looking at that conversation, that consensus isn't as "clear" as all of that. I take from it the consensus that the title "bullpen catcher" doesn't automatically mean "coach," and that they're subject to the GNG. I also take the clear sentiment from a bunch of those editors that bullpen catchers should be considered coaches if the teams state that they are. Now this guy still doesn't meet the GNG, but the Dodgers provably consider him a coach. It's an appropriate redirect. Nha Trang ^Allons! 16:25, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect per Spanneraol. While we don't treat bullpen catchers as coaches for purposes of presumed notability under WP:BASEBALL/N, the Dodgers themselves consider him a coach [2] and so his inclusion in the Dodgers' coach list is appropriate and thus a redirect to that list is appropriate as well. Rlendog (talk) 05:04, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If the Dodgers considered this guy a coach, he'd have "coach" in his title, and he wouldn't wear a number in the 80s like a batboy. Bullpen catchers are support staff, just like batting practice pitchers. The only difference is that batting practice pitchers work before the game and bullpen catchers work during the game. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 23:13, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

They don't have a separate batting practice pitcher... members of the coaching staff take turns filling that role.... and the Dodgers batboys have numbers in the 90s.. and also are not listed on the coaches page of the website like the bullpen catcher is. Spanneraol (talk) 23:56, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ha ha ha. You're really stretching. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 01:33, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If the Dodgers did not consider him a coach, they would not list him as such on their own website. Rlendog (talk) 13:04, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.