Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sperm sacs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. No prejudice against renomination. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 12:34, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sperm sacs[edit]

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Recently created as a set index article, but only the first ~~two~~ (on second look, Spermatheca is a receptacle, not a sac) can really be described as such. The other items either don't describe a "sac" at all or are simply glands, some of which are somewhat childish references, not backed up by any formal or common nomenclature. Any ambiguity can be handled with a hatnote or see also entry. Polyamorph (talk) 06:05, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Biology and Lists. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:42, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep "somewhat childish" in referring to medical websites using vernacular language to interact with patients is a rather worrying form of denigration and elitism. Even if it were actual children's speech, children do use Wikipedia, so a children's language terminology would also be expected to be usable as search terms. "Sperm sac" can refer to whatever the people in the real world at large wish to call it as such. A reservoir would easily be a sac, and the other entries reservoirs. Fluid-filled cysts and vesicles are certainly "sacs". And whether informal culinary language [1][2] for milt is childish or not, it is used for addressing adults. Our article at milt calls it "sperm sacs" or "testes", which is the culinary usage. -- 65.92.247.90 (talk) 21:32, 28 October 2023

Spermatophore is a capsule of spermatozoa, which could be described as a 'sac' filled with sperm.

Spermatheca is a receptacle, not referred to as a 'sac' in scientific or common vernacular.

Milt generally refers to the seminal fluid itself, although it could refer also to the fish genitalia. Our article does not refer to this as a 'sac', although I acknowledge some sources do refer to them as such.

Epididymis is a tube.

Seminal vesicle, a gland not a sac.

Testes are organs, not sacs.

Scrotum contains the testes, it's not a bag of sperm!
The last few are where my childish comment originates, it is not elitism, it's just not the scientific or common vernacular that is commonly used to describe these biological entities. It would be inaccurate to describe several of them as a 'sac' and for those that are 'sacs' the specific term 'sperm sac' is not an accurate description. Polyamorph (talk) 05:02, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"sperm sac" is also only used in the milt article, where it mentions that the testes are the sperm sacs, and not the first two articles, where the term does not appear. -- 65.92.247.90 (talk) 09:15, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Which somewhat illustrates my point that this disambiguation page is not necessary. Polyamorph (talk) 09:06, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Or rather illustrates that without this page, people will not find the articles that contain the content they are looking for, especially, those looking up information on their medical issues. Or the people wishing to explore the first two topics on the page. -- 65.92.247.90 (talk) 03:24, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, we don't redirect from every conceivable term someone might use for something if that term is not mentioned at the target page. Polyamorph (talk) 00:25, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The use of "sperm sac" to refer to such is referenced in the page in question. A tube can be sac like, just as a river becomes a lake before being a river again, where the tube becomes enlarged into a bulge. The stomach is a sac, is used like a sac as a water bottle when removed and processed, but is also a tube, as material flows from one end to the other. The storage area for matured and maturing sperm is called the sperm sac, before ejaculation, as indicated, since it is a storage, as such, like a sac. Organs and glands can store what they produce before being discharged, such as with the semen vesicles; such as with testicles, when they are engorged as in milt. Storage areas themselves are sometimes referred to as sacs. It is elitist to not acknowledge the common people and their usage of language, not the prescriptivist usage of the word "sac". Many things in the world are like that, where the specific grammarian use isn't what people actually use it for. A distended epididymis, the spermatocele, is more sac like, as it is a bulge in the tube. As medical material for the public describe such parts of the body and conditions as sperm sacs, then people would look on Wikipedia for such as well. The scrotum does contain stored sperm, and is referred to as a sperm-sac in vulgar speech, per the reference. -- 65.92.247.90 (talk) 01:34, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Additional input from more editors is needed to form consensus here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Actualcpscm^{scrutinize, talk} 16:54, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, but turn into a proper disambiguation page. Seems to meet the usefulness criterion of WP:DAB. Owen× ☎ 00:12, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ Delete. Per WP:R#DELETE condition #8. This could serve to be useful as an actual disambiguation page given the usage of "sperm sac" in some vernaculars as other users have noted, though it would need significant clean-up to fall more in line with MOS:DAB. -KJGinger (talk) 18:00, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your account is younger than this AfD page, were you previously an IP editor because you appear to be fairly well versed in aspects of wikipedia users usually take longer to get to grips with. In any case, can you be more specific about what "clean-up" needs to be done? Some of the entries are not appropriate and should be deleted entirely. In particular, if the term is not used in the target article then they shouldn't really be linked without strong evidence that it is common terminology. Polyamorph (talk) 19:42, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Lol, while I appreciate the suspicion, I'd never made any edits before this account, I just take well to how Wiki defines/gives context to its rules I guess. As to being more specific about the cleanup, the descriptions are probably most egregious. They largely seem to attempt to say sperm and sac as frequently as possible, and I agree with a point you made earlier in the discussion that they're childish. As an example, "Spermatheca" should probably read something more like "female reproductive organ found primarily in insects". RE: your last sentence, I was not aware of this policy, but if it's the case, then I'd agree there's less reason to keep this. KJGinger (talk) 21:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, re: your last commemt. It's point #8 in WP:R#DELETE, although that refers to redirects. This isn't mentioned in WP:DAB, so possibly requires some input from someone with more experience with DAB pages, although whats a DAB page if not a list of redirects from the same term? Polyamorph (talk) 09:23, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@2NumForIce: Pinging the original creator of the redirect. It seems they haven't been notified of this discussion. Polyamorph (talk) 09:40, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 08:01, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.