Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Southwestern Europe

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Regions of Europe. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:10, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Southwestern Europe

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WP:OR/WP:SYNTH, fails WP:GNG. Same as with Northwestern Europe, now under AfD as well: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Northwestern Europe. Necrothesp deprodded my prod, saying: "may well be non-notable, but still needs to go to AfD", so here it is. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:40, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Europe. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:40, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Nederlandse Leeuw Are you bundling these two nominations? If not, that may be advisable :) Actualcpscm^{scrutinize, talk} 16:55, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Actualcpscm I thought about it, and I decided not to. Southwestern Europe is a stub with very little text, and very little editing history, and zero talk page discussion. Northwestern Europe used to be quite a large article, with lots of references (which turned out to be WP:SYNTHed when I checked them one by one), and there has been quite some Talk:Northwestern Europe. I therefore believe the latter to be more complicated than the former, and would rather discuss them in parallel than together. But I appreciate the suggestion. :) Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:59, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That makes sense, thanks for elaborating :) Some people are unaware that BUNDLE exists, so I wanted to point it out just in case. I‘ll take a look at the articles later. Actualcpscm^{scrutinize, talk} 17:01, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I've used bundles in the past, but when the articles are not similar enough, we tend to get a complicated discussion that focusses on the issues with 1 article, and that can lead a whole bunch of editors to reject the bundle as a whole just because I included that 1 article in it. Then you need to do the whole thing over again by excluding that 1 article, or still nominating them separately. Sometimes people also don't see that I've nominated other articles, so they !vote only on the article highlighted and linked to in the AfD title. So in one case I boldened the co-nominees, but that had its own problems. Just not practical. For CFD it's different, but for AFD I rather not bundle anything. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:09, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect to Regions of Europe. In the subregions section, "South-western Europe" is piped to link to Iberian Peninsula with the map showing the same; not sure if that needs to be changed, but it's not clear that this is a widely used term with consistently recognized meaning that needs a separate article. One can make directional references to any place with one's own definition, but without more established meaning or discussion than pointing out the obvious of what "southwest" and "europe" mean, I don't see the need for this. Reywas92^Talk 17:47, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:56, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Andorra, France, Italy, Malta, Portugal, and Spain. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:49, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Iberian Peninsula.--Asqueladd (talk) 13:36, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I should point out that the article claims that the term refers to far more than the Iberian Peninsula. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:24, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Regions of Europe. I agree that this probably isn't a suitable topic for an article. The term "Southwestern Europe" is used flexibly and inconsistently in the academic literature (as far as I can tell), and it's not really a subject that is analysed directly. I would strongly oppose a redirect to Iberian Peninsula. It would be much better for a reader who searches for "Southwestern Europe" to be redirected to Regions of Europe; they may mean a part of France, for example. The purpose of a redirect is to help readers navigate the encyclopedia, not necessarily to direct them to the closest match available. From WP:REDIRECT: Redirects are used to help people arrive more quickly at the page they want to read, which in this case is not necessarily "Iberian peninsula". Actualcpscm^{scrutinize, talk} 18:24, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Southern Europe. Southern Europe includes Iberia, Malta and "the countries of the boot" and discusses if and to what extend France and Monaco are part of Southern Europe (important: NOT by the UN subcontinents that we use as the WP standard). However you turn it, Southwestern Europe is a sub-region of Southern Europe, i.e., Southwestern Europe (please make sure you sit tight!) is really West-Southern Europe! I could not find SIGCOV in regional geography proper (i.e., beyond the selection of a region for analysis in systematic geography) but found much more than sufficient material for a redirect. Now before someone asks me if systematic geography isn't superior to regional geography (thanks for asking!): usually very much so, but Southwestern Europe IS a regional geography, so this falls under the rest. Regional geography is the folksiest geography and plays a crucial role in socialization, and the accumulation, organization, and dissemination of human knowledge. gidonb (talk) 17:37, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That‘s a redirect I can get behind. Actualcpscm^{scrutinize, talk} 17:43, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: We have three different Redirect target articles suggested. Relisting to see if we can get opinion to settle on ONE of them.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This might have been complicated by Northwestern Europe, which actually was kept. There are over 4000 results for "Southwestern Europe" on ProQuest. Looking at the article for Northwestern Europe, I am pretty sure a similar level of material and reference coverage would be possible for this subject. - Indefensible (talk) 06:04, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Even if the cases are similar, it does not replace due diligence. I used consistent methodology from the relevant scientific domain and concluded that one article needs to be kept and the other merged into Southern Europe. Regions of Europe is for outgoing links on regions. Only a LAST resort for incoming links. Iberian Peninsula is US-centric in the sense that it limits to the CIA division of Europe and doesn't allow to discuss all possible definitions. Southwestern Europe is already built into the Southern Europe article! gidonb (talk) 21:12, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Same comment as the first relisting.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:16, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer not to give an arbitrary term as "southwestern Europe" any legitimacy, even through a redirect, so I prefer outright deletion. If we really do need to redirect it anywhere (for which I see no necessity), then Regions of Europe is the least worst option. It would be better than a no consensus close. NLeeuw (talk) 22:54, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.