Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Singhu Border Lynching (2021)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Tone 07:36, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Singhu Border Lynching (2021)

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Fails WP:EVENT and WP:EVENTCRIT this reads like a news story which has not yet proven enough lasting significance to warrant it's own article. If it is connected with the protests it can be added to 2020–2021 Indian farmers' protest but I don't see the link being made only that it was in the vicinity. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 15:37, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 15:37, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 15:37, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 15:37, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 15:37, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete because Wikipedia criteria WP:EVENT and WP:EVENTCRIT listed above are not met. This article is in clear violation of Wikipedia criteria about Wikipedia:NOT#NEWS. All the newspapers used in citation are reporting a crime or talking about the alleged accused, which is not yet proven in court. The event must demonstrate Lasting effects according to WP:LASTING. So far it has not been demonstrated that this criteria is met. A duplicate article for this event was already rejected, at Draft:2021 lynching and killing of dalit by farm protestors, and this has been moved regardless. So this should deleted. Venkat TL (talk) 16:10, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unfair to Call it a duplicate article, comparing with a deleted article, which cannot be viewed now. Also, the scope and coverage of this article is much more broader than the deleted article, which had a limited view of the incident with few sources, while this article has many high quality WP:RS sources and addresses the issue in a broader manner. Dhy.rjw (talk) 06:01, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Deletion of this article: Singhu border lynching (2021) for the following reasons:

This is one of the MOST Horrific MURDER in India in recent times, a brutal lynching and murder of an discriminated and protected class Dalit youth Lakhbir Singh, who was murdered in broad day light by a group of radicals. The page created and then reviewed (& approved) by editor Hughesdarren After the page was reviewed, another User: Venkat TL moves the article to Deletion Draft by giving a very vague reason that Wikipedia is not News, and cannot be used for a single event. There are thousands of Wiki pages on similar single incidents of Rapes, Murders and Lynching, that are widely reported in WP:RS. I present some examples of similar single events (not proven in Court) in India with Wiki pages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Hathras_gang_rape_and_murder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hyderabad_gang_rape_and_murder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balrampur_gang_rape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakhimpur_Kheri_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_snakebite_murder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Rohini_Court_Shooting

Considering all this, I don't see any logical reason to delete this page, other than to hide a Major Story from Wiki due to malicious intentions. This is a crucial incident widely reported in WP:RS sources in which a person from a protected class "Dalit" has been brutaly lynched and murdered. I hope you can revert this article back and save from deletion. Dhy.rjw (talk) 19:56, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Keep Satisifes WP:GNG with a decent list of reliable secondary sources including The Indian Express, Tribune India, India Today, Hindustan Times and The Economic Times. Regards. Hughesdarren (talk) 21:43, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
GNG alone, is not the criteria to meet here, events have a specific criteria to reach the inclusion threshold. That criteria is WP:EVENTCRIT. The thing we are missing right now is enduring significance or lasting effect. I'm not saying this won't become a notable event only that it is not yet proven to meet our criteria. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 01:27, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So you do agree that the article does meet WP:GNG? Note that in Wikipedia:Notability (events) it states as the criteria for inclusion: Events are probably notable if they have enduring historical significance and meet the general notability guideline, or if they have a significant lasting effect (I've added the bolding to "if" for emphasis). Also, Events are also very likely to be notable if they have widespread (national or international) impact and were very widely covered in diverse sources, especially if also re-analyzed afterwards (as described below). This is definitely the case for this article. Hughesdarren (talk) 08:42, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

~~*Keep~~ Satisifes WP:GEOSCOPE Over 15 Dalit Organizations across the world, demand strict action on the incident https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/15-dalit-outfits-demand-strict-action-against-culprits-of-singhu-border-lynching-325420

Reported by Reuters International https://www.reuters.com/world/india/indian-police-probe-murder-farmers-protest-site-detain-suspect-2021-10-16/

News reported in over 10 different states and regional language media across Asia. https://newsable.asianetnews.com/india/nihang-brutality-at-singhu-border-latest-developments-in-the-murder-case-vpn-r13ros Dhy.rjw (talk) 22:14, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

~~*Keep~~ Satisifes WP:DEPTH and WP:PERSISTENCE The Incident's long term impacts are being discussed in Editorials and Opinions in top national publications, Indian Express , The Hindu and others https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/editorials/singhu-border-lynching-skm-7573973/ https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/a-murder-most-foul-the-hindu-editorial-on-the-lynching-of-dalit-man-at-the-singhu-border-farmer-protest-site/article37045285.ece Dhy.rjw (talk) 22:18, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

~~*Keep~~ Satisifes WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE New issues related to incident & it's investigation are getting continued coverage; and related case being heard in India's Supreme Court, the highest court of the nation https://www.jurist.org/news/2021/10/india-supreme-court-is-petitioned-to-stop-ongoing-farm-protests-after-lynching-of-dalit-laborer/ https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/singhu-border-lynching-3-accused-sent-to-police-remand-2-sits-conducting-probe/article37040110.ece Dhy.rjw (talk) 22:22, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have taken the liberty to strike all your keep votes except for the first one. You are free to add to your comment but not to continue to vote with each addition. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 01:13, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Easily passes WP:EVENT. Enough citations from reliable independent sources are available to justify its notability and hence passes WP:GNG. NarangD (talk) 03:48, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep for now. I am opposed to creation of single death events that may happen often but we also have other similar articles surrounding this subject like Tabrez Ansari lynching. It should be kept for now given the massive coverage, and a opposition leader too has asked for investigation.[1] Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 03:57, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Agreed with Aman.kumar.goel, If an article is available for another Lynching case Tabrez Ansari lynching, This article also passes WP:EVENT. NarangD (talk) 05:52, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: After several days of event coverage, there is clear evidence that this event satisfies WP:EVENTCRIT as below:

1. The Incident's long term impacts are being discussed in Editorials and OPINION pieces in top national publications, Indian Express , The Hindu and others https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/editorials/singhu-border-lynching-skm-7573973/ https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/a-murder-most-foul-the-hindu-editorial-on-the-lynching-of-dalit-man-at-the-singhu-border-farmer-protest-site/article37045285.ece

2. Event related issues are being heard in India's Supreme Court, where only the MOST IMPORTANT issues are heard. https://www.jurist.org/news/2021/10/india-supreme-court-is-petitioned-to-stop-ongoing-farm-protests-after-lynching-of-dalit-laborer/

3. There is CONTINUED Coverage of the event in print, electronic and social media: https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/haryana/singhu-lynching-3-accused-sent-to-police-remand-2-sits-conducting-probe-325811 https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/singhu-border-lynching-3-accused-sent-to-police-remand-2-sits-conducting-probe/article37040110.ece https://thewire.in/government/singhu-border-lynching-one-more-arrested-two-more-from-nihang-order-surrender — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhy.rjw (talk • contribs) 06:36, 18 October 2021 (UTC) Dhy.rjw (talk) 06:38, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Has been covered consistently for several days now here in India; the incident certainly has gained WP:LASTING notability (i.e. passes NEVENT). Article is admittedly pretty bare-bones, but that is not an argument for deletion: except in cases of BLP violations, spam and other cases of WP:TNT, articles are generally not deleted because of content problems, as they can be fixed in non-TNT cases; and this article is pretty far from being a TNT case. Java Hurricane 06:41, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: The incident is significant as it is an act of terrorism against marginalized Dalits by Sikh extremists. The incident satisfies "significant coverage" and "reliable" criteria of WP:GNG as of 10/18/2021, 8:30AM PST:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/dalit-organisations-approach-supreme-court-commission-demand-extensive-probe-into-singhu-lynching/articleshow/87098517.cms https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/chandigarh-news/singhu-border-lynching-national-sc-commission-seeks-report-from-haryana-police-101634326560310.html https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2021/10/18/2-SITs-to-investigate-Singhu-border-lynching-case.html TallMegan (talk) 15:32, 18 October 2021 (UTC)TallMegan[reply]

keep The incident satisfies depth, diversity and duration of coverage WP:INDEPTH, WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE / WP:PERSISTENCE and WP:DIVERSE because of all the references cited. Further, the incident is important as the Sikh Extremist group has warned [1 that anyone found disrespecting their literature will meet the same fate] of being brutally killed as the Dalit victim. Hence in public interest, we should report this incident.

1. https://www.firstpost.com/india/singhu-border-lynching-arrested-nihang-sikh-unrepentant-says-all-sacrilege-accused-will-meet-same-fate-two-more-surrender-10062241.html

This kind of behavior is nothing new. The Nihang's have been known to commit such atrocities [2] however such incidents have remained poorly reported. That is where Wikipedia can provide a better historical record.

2. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/nihangs-cut-off-hand-of-policeman-after-scuffle-in-vegetable-market/articleshow/75104243.cms

Further comment: Venkat TL is zealously deleting any reference to this article and even had me banned as per 3RR rule -- his actions to had this article for deletion is resulting in considerable work by all of us who agree that this article must be published. I think we should report VenkatTL appropriately for vandalism by deletion of important content which can save people's lives. Isn't that Wikipedia's goal ? to make our lives better ? In public interest, this article should be published so no one else falls victim to Nihang extremist Sikhs. Rob108 (talk) 01:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Rob108[reply]

@Rob108: First I would recommend you be careful about accusations and attempts to gather a mob to report a user, please remember WP:AGF. Wikipedia's purpose is to write about notable topics based on what reliable sources have said about them. It is not to make people's lives better, advocate for anything and not a historical record. We are not concerned with the public's interest, that is for the police or some other site. It is not a soapbox platform. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 02:30, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Concur with Mcmatter on this. @Rob108: see WP:RGW and WP:CANVAS. Java Hurricane 07:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Java McMatter Thanks for the comments, I will assume good faith. However, recently again, my properly sourced additions were reverted by Venkat TL with a two word explanation 'says who?' -- he should look at sources before deleting content. It takes lot of effort to add content and it is frustrating to see the content removed without any reason or specific reference to wikipedia policies. Rob108 (talk) 03:15, 20 October 2021 (UTC)TallMegan[reply]

Keep per WP:RAPID high profile murder passes WP:GNG.Now the question whether it will be WP:LASTING can be determined only months after this but with the trial yet to begin there will more coverage.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:34, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.