Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sheng Man

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. MBisanz ^talk 00:10, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sheng Man[edit]

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Appears to be fictional - as a general who was somewhat cast in a similar role, historically, was referred to as Sheng Xian, not Sheng Man, without the offices stated here for Sheng Man. See Book of Jin, vol. 57 (describing Luo Xian as having defended against an attack by Sheng Xian). The rest of what "Sheng Man" was said to have done appears to be completely made up. While we do have a large number of articles under the category Category:Fictional people of the Three Kingdoms, in this case, the name "Sheng Man" is not even traceable to one of the better known fictional works. Delete. --Nlu (talk) 06:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Further comment Upon re-reading of Sheng Xian, I now realize that it refers to a different Sheng Xian than the one that I was thinking of. I have not had enough chance to research into whether this Sheng Xian existed. If he did, I would modify my own nomination to instead advocate for a deletion in the basis of lack of notability (as this latter Sheng Xian/Sheng Man participated in but one battle that was referred to historical records and the extent of participation was unclear) (but if article is not deleted, move to an article name like Sheng Xian (Eastern Wu)). If he did not, I would withdraw the Sheng Man nomination and renominate Sheng Xian for deletion; if the deletion is carried out, then move Sheng Man to Sheng Xian and then renominate it at that time for deletion based on lack of notability. (I'm going to try to that research tonight if not too tired; otherwise, within a day or two.) --Nlu (talk) 02:59, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Further, further comment The other Sheng Xian was real, too. I am staying with my current recommendation to delete as not sufficiently notable, but if there's no consensus on that issue, to then move to Sheng Xian (Eastern Wu). --Nlu (talk) 04:12, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 15:08, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 15:08, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 15:08, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Based on what I've read so far, there were two Sheng Xians. The first was this Sheng Xian (style name Xiaozhang), who was executed by Sun Quan. (As such, we can infer that this Sheng Xian definitely died before 251, the year of Sun Quan's death.) The second Sheng Xian was the one mentioned in Volume 57 of the Book of Jin (吳聞蜀敗，遣將軍盛憲西上，外托救援，內欲襲憲。), who fought on the Wu side against Luo Xian in 263. (see here) I suspect that Sheng Man might be based on the second Sheng Xian, but I can't find the name "Sheng Man" in Romance of the Three Kingdoms. However, I'm certain that Sheng Man did appear as a character in these games because I play(ed) them and have seen "Sheng Man" in the games before. Could it be that "Sheng Man" is one of Koei's "creations"? After all, many Three Kingdoms persons who are mentioned briefly in historical records, but appear as characters in the games, have their own Wikipedia articles (presumably created by Koei fans), which, in my opinion, are not notable enough to have individual articles on them. (i.e. making an appearance as a character in a game does not mean that the person, fictional or not, is notable enough to have a Wikipedia article) LDS _{contact me} 09:38, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Your theory sounds likely, LDS. It may very well be a game-playability thing to avoid having two Sheng Xians. --Nlu (talk) 03:04, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - Delete: I scanned chapters 117-120 of Romance of the Three Kingdoms (the chapters in which "Sheng Man" would most probably appear) again and did not manage to find any mention of "Sheng Man". Surprisingly, when I searched for "Luo Xian" in those chapters, I can't find him as well. I'm rather convinced that "Sheng Man" was neither a historical figure nor a fictional character created by Luo Guanzhong. LDS _{contact me} 05:35, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Courcelles 00:50, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger _{One ping only} 08:14, 28 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.