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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus leaning keep. There are conflicting comments about whether or not the google hits make samwell notable. Searching by a real name isn't a very good marker here, because he doesn't go by his real name as an internet entertainer. The close is without prejudice of a relist in the future this discussion simply failed to show a consensus to delete. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 22:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Samwell (entertainer)[edit]

Samwell (entertainer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Non-notable "internet celebrity". His video (What What (In the Butt)) has made a splash - 277,000 Ghits, 15 mill views on YouTube. However, notability is not catching. The creator gets 377 Ghits when you search for his real name. His website says he's signed to Southern Fried Records, but the record label's website doesn't list him under the "artists" tab. SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:24, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


  • Keep. He seems noteworthy enough to me -- he's one of the biggest Internet celebrities out there. Aside from the 15 million hits his "What What" video has received (and the fact that it's one of the most discussed YouTube videos of all time [check the "honors" section for the video]), his other videos get tons of views as well. Plus, he's been a featured guest on the Lily Allen and Friends television program and is appearing in two upcoming films.

As far as Southern Fried Records goes, it looks like his song is available from their website -- so if they're selling it and promoting it, it seems legit to me. Here's a link to their website: http://www.southernfriedrecords.com/site/index.php?page=111

And if you go to the Brownmark Films website (www.brownmarkfilms.com) it looks like he's received a ton of press from some very mainstream sources. 65.30.186.104 (talk) 07:02, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. Why would you search for his real name? There's only around 1500 Ghits for ‘Adam Bahner‘, and yet Tay Zonday is considered notable. Search for the very generic name ‘Samwell‘ and you'll see that this particular Samwell dominates those results (7 out of the top 10). If this article is deleted I would bet it has more to do with Samwell's over-the-top flamboyance, rather than his lack of notability, and that's not cool. 69.210.102.55 (talk) 19:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: both the above seem to be WP:SPAs. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 19:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC) [reply]
  • Delete despite the claims above the subject does not appear to have significant coverage from multiple, reliable, 3rd party sources and therefore fails our policies and guidelines for inclusion. Jasynnash2 (talk) 09:14, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mr.Z-man 16:18, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete lacks independent, reliable, in depth, sources. Seems to only be notable for WP:ONEVENT as his other works and his two film roles are minor. - Icewedge (talk) 16:30, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Actor/Singer was featured on long running television show South Park. Very well known. Well known to be an addition to the LGBT community. If we shall delete this article then might as well delete William Sledd and other LGBT minor celebrities. It only makes sense. (Phrasia (talk) 07:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC))[reply]
  • Keep; he did make quite a name for himself for just one video (Yes, it was just one, but should we delete Los Del Rio and Soft Cell for being musical groups with just one big hit?) 96.242.135.203 (talk) 05:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please show us where he meets our notability guideline, which states that to be considered notable, the subject must have received significant coverage in reliable sources which are independent of the subject. seresin ( ¡? ) 22:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Phrasia. Also, while one of his videos is by far the most popular, it seems subjective to say that it is the only one he is known for. His other videos have a lot of views (sum is over 1 mil). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.148.236.90 (talk) 01:27, 9 September 2008 (UTC) — 32.148.236.90 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Keep per Phrasia. Very well known in LGBT community. Calebrw (talk) 04:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
to which "LGBT community" do you refer - there are a bunch of us around and noone in my "community" knows who this person is. Please don't try to group worldwide section of humanity into one and discuss this article and its subject in accordance with the policies and guidelines of wikipedia. I'm pretty sure "very well known" isn't the same thing as notable. Jasynnash2 (talk) 16:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I perhaps should have reworded in a different, less all-inclusive form. Generalization is of course wrong. Either way, the LGBT community which I am most familiar with regards Samwell quite highly. Calebrw (talk) 02:53, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment "Very well known in LGBT community"?? I've never heard of the person at all. Not that I make up the LGBT community, of course :) But perhaps you could provide a reliable source with significant coverage on *the person* (and not his video)? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 16:03, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment To SatyrTN: How about this article from MSNBC.com? Seems to reference Samwell more so than the video (5x vs 1x). The Last Lovemaking Taboo Lifted (from the person who added the 2nd Keep) 76.199.158.68 (talk) 21:02, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You're right that it refers to him more than his video, but that's only in passing in an article that's about something related - which means it isn't the "significant coverage" our notability guidelines are looking for. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:53, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Okay, gosh, you're tough! How about this one? Riverfront Times "Samwell Asks The Eternal Question..." It even says, "Subject: Samwell." Also, did you begin to take issue with this article after the photo went up? (The article was up for a while before your AfD thingy, but the AfD seems to coincide with the new photo...) Did that make it seem too promotional? Would removing the photo make you feel better? 76.199.158.68 (talk) 03:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There's also this radio interview with LA's popular KROQ hosts "Kevin & Bean" Samwell Interviewed on KROQ. And while this MKEOnline article is about the creators, it does mention Samwell, not in passing. Would that one count? Here's another from BlogCritics magazine. Would that one work? 76.199.158.68 (talk) 03:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
LOL! Persistent :) What you're looking for is something to pass Wikipedia's notability guidelines. That means "significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject". The interview isn't a secondary source. The MKE-Online isn't about Sam Norman. You mentioned a BlogCritics article - I assume you meant to link to [1]. That's also about the creators (Ciraldo and Swant), not about Norman. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 03:35, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for helping with the link. But why is the interview from the KROQ radio station not considered a secondary source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.158.68 (talk) 03:45, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Since he's the one talking, it's a "primary source" - straight from the horses mouth. Pardon the "straight." :)
BTW, the picture didn't bring it to my attention. I patrol the LGBT categories as part of WP:WikiProject LGBT studies and ran across his article through that. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 03:57, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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