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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Strictly Come Dancing. Well, first off I see that the editor who created this article and supporter of keeping this argument is indefinitely blocked for sock- and meatpuppetry and undisclosed paid editing, including using that sockpuppet to double vote in this AFD; I've thus chosen to ignore their arguments (which also aren't policy or guideline-based; neither YouTube subscriber counts nor being an author nor participating in a girl group or a television shows are by themselves evidence of notability per our inclusion criteria WP:N and the like).

Beyond this the delete argument - which is ahead in the headcount - relies on WP:BLP1E as the coverage is about the subject's participation in Strictly Come Dancing - which apparently hasn't happened yet, either - that there is not enough in-depth coverage to satisfy WP:GNG and the points that merely participating there and that the article appears to have been written for promotional purposes. Some editors are proposing a redirect to Strictly Come Dancing or Strictly Come Dancing (series 17) because all claims to notability are about the subject's relationship to that work. On the keep side, aside from the sockpuppetry and the non-policy/guideline based arguments above, there are some sources that have been listed and argued to support keeping and a claim that WP:ENT#C2 is met.

On balance, the consensus is that the topic isn't separate enough from Strictly Come Dancing to keep this as its own article; the sources proffered by the keepers have been contested on the grounds that they are all about the "relantionship" (not in the marriage sense or the like) to the TV show and this point has not been contested, and it's not clear how WP:ENT#C2 is satisfied - normally YouTube subscriptions are not considered evidence of that point being met. On the other hand, most delete arguments acknowledge that coverage does exist even if it's about the participation in the TV show, and that endorses the notion of a redirect to the show (nothing in WP:BLP1E disallows it, either); plus it is possible that a separate article may become permissible later (per Michig). Thus the redirect; to Strictly Come Dancing rather than Strictly Come Dancing (series 17) mostly because of the headcount and since nobody has stated a strong preference; further jiggering can be discussed on talk or at WP:RFD. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:55, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Saffron Barker[edit]

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Saffron Barker (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Case of WP:BLP1E most of the coverage is after participating in Strictly Come Dancing. There is no inherent notability attached to being a participant of a dance show unless she has won it. FitIndia ✉ बात 07:48, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Strictly Come Dancing is arguably one of the biggest television shows in the United Kingdom and if she’s notable enough to appear on Strictly she’s notable enough to have a Wikipedia page. As well this she’s known for her YouTube career and for being in a girl group named Born2Blush. Danis fast game (talk) 08:45, 6 August 2019 (UTC)— Note to closing admin: Danis fast game (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD. [reply]
Notability is not inherited. That means just that someone appears on a notable show doesn't make them notable in their own right. --Slashme (talk) 08:57, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete None of the independent, reliable sources indicate that she is notable beyond her association with Strictly Come Dancing. --Slashme (talk) 08:57, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete YouTuber among with many others, with the exception of Strictly Come Dancing, there is nothing worthy of credit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.18.191.169 (talk) 10:09, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - the refs don't add up to notability. It may be just WP:TOOSOON but she certainly isn't notable yet.  Velella  Velella Talk   09:43, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How is she not notable? She’s a Youtuber with over 3 million subscribers and has been in a girl group, and now she’s a contestant on one of the biggest shows in the UK. Danis fast game (talk) 09:47, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There are on the order of 3000 YouTube channels with over 3 million subscribers. They're not all notable. --Slashme (talk) 13:12, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
When will people understand that followers or subscribers do not in anyway contribute to notability? Trillfendi (talk) 14:41, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Strictly Come Dancing (series 17). All of the coverage from reliable sources that are in the article and that I could find are directly related to her casting on Strictly. -- Whpq (talk) 10:58, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

She’s also written a book Danis fast game (talk) 12:36, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not all authors are notable. --Slashme (talk) 13:14, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

She’s not just an author though. I’m saying she’s an author AS WELL as being a singer and YouTube star, and now a television personality. That seems pretty notable to me. Danis fast game (talk) 14:25, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep The subject is getting plenty of press coverage such as the Daily Telegraph and so seems to pass WP:ENTERTAINER and WP:BASIC. The BBC have invited her onto Strictly as a "social media star" (rather than as a professional dancer) and it is clearly their view that she is already a celebrity. Andrew D. (talk) 15:55, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 06:36, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 06:36, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 06:36, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Notability is lacking. Subject of this WP:COISELF WP:PROMO article has no more inherent notability than thousands of other internet figures. Numbers of "likes" or "followers" on social media or YouTube is not criteria for inclusion in an encyclopedia. Does not pass WP:GNG. There is no in-depth coverage. Netherzone (talk) 13:53, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Paid PROMO and canvassing disqualify this version. Perhaps start over legitimately, but this version should go. Agricola44 (talk) 16:39, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete The issues of PAID, PROMO, and skullduggery aside, the subject simply dose not have enough significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 17:30, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep (Rewrite Article) The subject passes WP:ENTERTAINER and WP:BASIC and is likely to be even more notable after Strictly so maybe redirect to Strictly Come Dancing until Strictly starts. However the article should be re written due to PAID, PROMO and canvassing.X on the Beach (talk) 18:32, 8 August 2019 (UTC) strike confirmed sock vote -- Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 20:30, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per WP:PROMO and fails WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:24, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Appears notable enough (e.g. [1], [2], [3], [4]), is realistically only going to get more notable once Strictly starts, and there's no policy-based justification for deletion. --Michig (talk) 06:34, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Strictly Come Dancing. Many of the references identified above are indeed RS, but they all identify her in context of being a contestant on the show. It's fairly Routine type coverage. Maybe it could change, as noted above, but that's just WP:CRYSTAL. ShelbyMarion (talk) 08:13, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:ENT#C2.--Launchballer 11:07, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Agree Redirect to Strictly Come Dancing. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:43, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and/or Redirect as above. She has mostly garnered media attention after her appearance the announcement of her participation on "Strictly Come Dancing", so I'd say it's too early for a standalone article right now. GSS (talk|c|em) 17:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - She hasn't appeared on Strictly Come Dancing yet, It's an upcoming series and the coverage is typical of the publicity machine for these shows drummming up articles about the contestants or show in advance of airing. -- Whpq (talk) 18:04, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • and this looks like a part of their promotional strategy. GSS (talk|c|em) 04:02, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Saffron is a YouTuber and a singer and a contestant on Strictly 176.35.78.20 (talk) 14:02, 11 August 2019 (UTC) Note to closing admin: — 176.35.78.20 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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