Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sólrun Løkke Rasmussen

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Stifle (talk) 09:53, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sólrun Løkke Rasmussen[edit]

Her husband is obviously notable as the prime minister of Denmark, but as she isn't really notable for anything else than this marriage herself, she fails WP:BIO completely. -Lilac Soul ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 07:15, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This is a clearly non-trivial source on the person, which describes her as "first lady". There is no reason to treat Denmark differently from the United Kingdom (Sarah Brown) on an issue like this. Notability for being the first lady is still notability; her role makes her a person of public interest. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:40, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Except she is not the first lady (Queen Margrethe II of Denmark is). 85.164.196.159 (talk) 22:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - The Queen is the Head of State not the First Lady, thank you very much. TH (talk) 16:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - ?????? The term first lady is applied to the wife of the head of state (not head of government). It originates in the USA and has no official use in Denmark. The Queen is the "first lady" of the state in Denmark, it's hilarious to claim that the wife of the Prime Minister (head of government, not state) is above the Queen. 85.164.196.159 (talk) 16:30, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Denmark-related deletion discussions. -- I'^mperator 12:15, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - This is pretty much an automatic keep. Easily passes WP:BIO notability criteria as the Danish First Lady. Receiving significant coverage in major news sources (Politiken Berlinske Tidende, TV2). And this is only after her first few days. This will certainly grow, just as it does for Sarah Brown, Michelle Obama and other national first ladies. — CactusWriter | ^needles 14:28, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- How can she "easily pass WP:BIO notability criteria as the Danish First Lady" when she is, in fact, not the Danish first lady (Queen Margrethe II of Denmark is). 85.164.196.159 (talk) 22:44, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - The Queen is the Head of State not the First Lady, thank you very much. TH (talk) 16:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - You contradict yourself. No woman in Denmark is above the Queen, nor has the wife of a member of the cabinet any official role or title. 85.164.196.159 (talk) 16:49, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - All the sources and the Danish Wikipedia disagree with your POV. — CactusWriter | ^needles 12:46, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - You are citing a Wikipedia article full of nonsense and original research written by yourself as a source. LOL 85.164.196.159 (talk) 16:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      - Actually, the history for the Danish article shows my only edit was the link to the English WP. Whereas, it shows several editors reverting your edits for vandalism. — CactusWriter | ^needles 21:56, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There are enough verifiable biographical data to support an article. If she's not notable on her own, she could be merged to the PM. Either way, deletion would not be a suitable outcome. - Mgm|^(talk) 22:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete but merge any data not already in the PM to that article. Sarah Brown is notable independent of being the spouse of a politician. And the article here makes no assertion of Solrun's notability other than as spouse of a notable politician. --Trödel 17:19, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This is pretty much an automatic delete, non-notable person who works as a teacher at a primary(?) school. Being married to a notable person doesn't make a person notable, all relevant information can be included in the article on her husband. Btw, she is NOT the first lady of Denmark. The "first lady" of Denmark is Queen Margrethe II of Denmark (although, strictly speaking, the term "first lady" is only used in republics and applied to the spouse of the head of state, not the head of government). In Scandinavia, the spouses of politicians (including members of the government) does not have a particular role (unlike the royal family) and are usually NOT considered public persons unless they are known for something in their own right. She isn't. 85.164.196.159 (talk) 22:40, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - This is not about marriage. WP:BIO guidelines clearly state "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject." The several referenced articles, from national news sources and written solely about the subject, qualify her as a notable public figure. The use of the term "first lady" (førstedame) is made by the independent sources, as well as many other articles such as Fem førstedamer taler ud, Her er Danmarks nye førstedame and the 2006 book Førstedamer about the previous five first ladies of Denmark. The references provide the information and speak for themselves. Anything else is personal POV and a violation of NPOV and WP:OR. Please do not remove the referenced information from the article like here. — CactusWriter | ^needles 08:49, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note - The same bio, written by an administrator on the Danish Wikipedia, suggests the Danes find her notable. (See da:Sólrun Løkke Rasmussen) — CactusWriter | ^needles 12:46, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Crosswiki-spam, nominated for deletion on several projects. 85.164.196.159 (talk) 16:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - She has only been first lady for a week so yes it may be a bit thin on bio-things to report about her but this will only grow during her term. The article already contains enough to be kept on its own merits. TH (talk) 16:21, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- "Her term"?. You mean her husband's term (as a member of the government, not head of state). She has no official role or title, nor is she the first lady in the state (the Queen is). 85.164.196.159 (talk) 16:47, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
According to the Danish Order of Precedence (official government source), the Queen is presently the "first lady" of Denmark. There are a large number of people that takes precedence way before the Prime Minister (the entire royal family, the counts of Rosenborg, the countess of Frederiksborg), the wives of cabinet members takes precedence with their husbands, as such, Mrs. Rasmussen takes precedence in Class 1 (after the Royal Family) Number 4, not as the "first lady". 85.164.196.159 (talk) 16:52, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For comparison, Sarah Brown (spouse) is called "the wife of Gordon Brown, the current Prime Minister of the United Kingdom" and the "Spouse of Prime Minister of the United Kingdom", not the "first lady of the UK" (in Scandinavia, the spouses of government members are, unlike the UK, not usually considered public persons unless they are known for something in their own right – there are no articles on the wives of Anders Fogh Rasmussen or Poul Schlüter either, while the wife of Poul Nyrup Rasmussen is a former cabinet minister). 85.164.196.159 (talk) 17:56, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. From the point of view of the Faroe Islands, she has the highest position, a Faroese ever reached in the Danish society. Of course, the Danes call this "First Lady". It is the language of the media, and everybody knows, that the Queen is the head of state. There is another aspect, relevant for Wikipedia, which is Sólrun Jákupsdóttir's family. She is the granddaughter of the Tjóðveldi founder Sigurd Joensen and furthermore great-granddaughter of Símun av Skarði. These are nationalist leaders, every children in Faroe now, and that one of them is now the wife of the Danish Prime Minister, ist already now a very important fact in the History of the Faroe Islands. By the way, I will write the German article and show the relevance in my way. -- Arne List (talk) 20:06, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Addition: If we skip the popular Danish term førstedame (First Lady) of many good reasons in the language of the English article, so we should mention her merely official title, which is statsministerfrue (State Minister's spouse). As mentioned above, she is together with her husband the highest civic person in the Danish protocol. And as mentioned by me, the highest Faroese person ever in that protocol. The Faroese Prime Minister (løgmaður) comes in Denmark after the vice presidents of the Folketing. -- Arne List (talk) 21:49, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, and merge as suggested. The interesting fact that "she has the highest position, a Faroese ever reached in the Danish society" might be important to fo:wp, but it makes no general claim of relevance. --Orland (talk) 21:56, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, but she is relevant in the Danish WP and will remain it. And most of the foreign people interested in the Faroe Islands don't speak Faroese. And by the way do the Danish media write more about her, than the Faroese. The Faroese even know, that she is the great-granddaughter of Símun av Skarði, while this is unknown in the Danish media. For us here is it interesting, that she has at least 4 persons in her family (aunt Turið Sigurðardóttir not to forget), who deserve Wikipedia articles without any doubt as part of Faroese history, literature and philology. -- Arne List (talk) 23:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.