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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Not enough evidence of coverage in reliable sources. Opabinia regalis (talk) 06:47, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Rodney Stich[edit]

Rodney Stich (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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There appears to be a total of one reliable source that discusses this person; all others are fringe sources. Fails WP:AUTHOR and WP:BLPFRINGE. Location (talk) 10:06, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Conspiracy theories-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JohnCD (talk) 20:02, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails WP:NAUTHOR, WP:GNG and WP:ANYBIO. Being cited by others does provide some evidence of notability, but he's certainly not "widely cited by peers or successors." Pburka (talk) 20:11, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Defrauding America has been reviewed by the Conspiracy Digest, describing it as "Defrauding America by Rodney Stich is the Rosetta Stone for decoding nationwide criminal conspiracy. It's also an astonishing contribution to American history. And, without a doubt, it will be the most mind-blowing book you've ever read.".[1] More citations for Defrauding America,[2][3][4][5][6][7] Yogesh Khandke (talk) 13:11, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A photograph in an article written by Ken Summers, has been attributed to him.[8] Yogesh Khandke (talk) 13:46, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think you need to take a closer look at those sources; Gyeorgos C. Hatonn is my favorite. Conspiracy theorists frequently cite or give kudos to other conspiracy theorists. I do not believe he has been "widely cited", but that is irrelevant. Implicit in "widely cited by peers or successors" is the idea that those peers and successors are reliable sources themselves. We don't allow fringe sources to dictate the notability of fringe subjects. This fails WP:BLPFRINGE. - Location (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't disagree with your fringe description, his theories may be fringe, but they are popular, and that makes him notable. Also he has been quoted by mainstream sources too, as per above. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 13:48, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Taking Hatonn off per Location. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 14:08, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Are you asking me to go through these sources one by one? Well, Conspiracy Digest is the self-published work of artist Uri Dowbenko. For Farrell, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joseph P. Farrell. Douglas Perez's work appears to be self-published and only notes Stich in his recommend reading list (which contains other conspiracy works). Larry Chin cites other conspiracy theorists to support a version of the October Surprise conspiracy theory. Ken Summers writes for Week in Weird; this is essentially the National Enquirer. John Barry Smith's www.montereypeninsulaairport.com is self-published. And as you've noted below, Flying Magazine cites Smith, not Stich. - Location (talk) 15:43, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
John Barry Smith in his Rupture at Midspan Latches of Cargo Door in Flight Probably Caused by Wiring/Electrical Fault uses a photo from The Real Unfriendly Skies, Saga of Corruption,[9] Smith is an independent investigator who has been quoted by Flying (magazine).[10] Yogesh Khandke (talk) 14:49, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Smith using a photo from Stich's book is hardly a citation, and contributes little to notability. Pburka (talk) 19:38, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed one photo alone doesn't contribute to notability, but it isn't one photo alone, here is an independent investigator who uses a photo from Stich's work, how is a photo any worse than quoting text. Yes, Flying (magazine) doesn't quote Stich, it quotes Smith, so Smith is a notable investigator who cites Stich. Even when we take a couple of sources as bad, there still are seven that are kosher, as I see them. Stich has come up with fantastic theories that are taken cognisance, so what a few are National Enquirer type. His Spartacus Educational entry says he has done 2500 radio/ TV shows, internationally, which also makes him notable.[11] SE isn't blacklisted, it is "use with caution" just as any other source better or worse, see this Encyclopaedia Britannica entry on Mahabaleshwar it locates it completely wrong.[1] I had written them, yet they ignored. This is a package, a conspiracy theorist, an investigator, an author, if you sum the parts, there is enough to make him notable. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 18:28, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The claim is copied nearly verbatim from Stich's book advertisements: [2][3]. - Location (talk) 18:48, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also Conspiracy Digest is "small but influential",Robin Ramsay (editor) mentions CD[12] so does Adam Gorightly[13] Mark Fenster[14] Richard M. Gilman[15] Richard M. Gilman calls it Small but highly influential.[15] A Orion Publishing Group book also refers to a quotation from it.[16] Yogesh Khandke (talk) 19:07, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The advertisements mention reviews by West Coast Review of Books, Dick Gregory, Nexus (magazine) and American Library Association Yogesh Khandke (talk) 19:17, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Given the lengthy back and forth above I decided to have another look at the article and try to take in the points from the discussion. Unfortunately I still am not seeing much. Once you take out the Fringe sources the case for notability is incredibly weak. Regrettably I stand by my Delete !vote. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:18, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Dowbenko, Uri. "Book Review". Conspiracy Digest. Retrieved 2 July 2015.
  2. ^ Gyeorgos C. Hatonn (April 1994). Taking Off the Blindfold. Phoenix Source Distributors, Inc. pp. 97–. ISBN 978-1-56935-038-6.
  3. ^ Joseph P. Farrell (2006). The SS Brotherhood of the Bell: NASA's Nazis, JFK, and Majic-12. Adventures Unlimited Press. pp. 392–. ISBN 978-1-931882-61-3.
  4. ^ Gyeorgos C. Hatonn (1 December 1993). Retirement Retreats: Or Which Concentration Camp Do You Prefer?. Phoenix Source Distributors, Inc. pp. 100–. ISBN 978-1-56935-027-0.
  5. ^ Gyeorgos C. Hatonn (1 June 1994). Criminal Polit Buros and Other Plagues. Phoenix Source Distributors, Inc. pp. 2–. ISBN 978-1-56935-041-6.
  6. ^ Douglas Perez (1 January 2010). Paradoxes of Police Work. Cengage Learning. pp. 118–. ISBN 1-111-79025-6.
  7. ^ Chin, Larry (2006-11-09). "Bush administration's Trojan Horse gift to America and the Democrats: Former CIA Director and Iran-Contra insider Robert Gates". Global Research. Retrieved 2 July 2015.
  8. ^ Summers, Ken (2014-05-20). "Man without a Country: Who Was The Mystery Man from Taured?". Week in Weird. Retrieved 2 July 2015.
  9. ^ Smith, John Barry. "Rupture at Midspan Latches of Cargo Door in Flight Probably Caused by Wiring/Electrical Fault". montereypeninsulaairport.com. Retrieved 2 July 2015.
  10. ^ Flying Magazine. July 1992. pp. 104–. ISSN 0015-4806.
  11. ^ Simkin, John. "Rodney Stich". Spartacus Educational. Retrieved 2 July 2015.
  12. ^ Robin Ramsay (3 February 2012). Conspiracy Theories. Oldcastle Books, Limited. pp. 37–. ISBN 978-1-84243-819-0.
  13. ^ Adam Gorightly (2003). The Prankster and the Conspiracy: The Story of Kerry Thornley and How He Met Oswald and Inspired the Counterculture. Cosimo, Inc. pp. 200–. ISBN 978-1-61640-622-6.
  14. ^ Mark Fenster (1999). Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture. U of Minnesota Press. pp. 274–. ISBN 978-0-8166-3242-8.
  15. ^ a b Richard M. Gilman (1 December 1982). Behind World revolution: the strange career of Nesta H. Webster. Insights Books. ISBN 978-0-910087-00-1.
  16. ^ Dan Burstein; Arne de Keijzer (18 November 2010). Secrets Of Angels And Demons. Orion. pp. 237–. ISBN 978-0-297-86490-5.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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