Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rizayev Jasur Alimdjanovich

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 11:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rizayev Jasur Alimdjanovich

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Previously deleted and declined multiple times. Does not pass WP:GNG and WP:NACADEMIC GermanKity (talk) 10:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. GermanKity (talk) 10:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. GermanKity (talk) 10:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Uzbekistan-related deletion discussions. GermanKity (talk) 10:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russian-related deletion discussions. Dr. Universe (talk) 01:40, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Prior deletion was purely procedural, but he fails WP:NACADEMIC and a rector is not a notable function. AND he fails WP:ANYBIO. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 12:37, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Now recognise rector position argument and as head of the Samarkand State Medical Institute he would be notable. Egg/face occlusion. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 15:27, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The word 'rector' can mean different things in different countires. If in this case it's the highest position in the university, then he passes NPROF 6 and should be kept. Eccekevin (talk) 04:39, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexandermcnabb: I'm curious how you see that it's been deleted in the past? Do you just remember the AfD discussion? Or is there a way to see that it was deleted in the past? Dr. Universe (talk) 20:03, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. Universe, jumping in here... it was deleted through Prod, not AfD, and was purely procedural since it was a redirect to a non-existent page. You can check that on the article where it says "prev dels" at the top next to the page title. Here's the link. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 21:37, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks User:onel5969. The link to the deletion log was useful. I cannot see where it says "prev dels" on the article next to the page title though. Dr. Universe (talk) 21:41, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Dr. Universe, hmmm... I think that might be something you need to "turn on". Not sure which of the java scripts on my preferences does it. Or it might be one of the other boxes you check off. Not sure, and just browsed through to see if anything popped out at me. It didn't unfortunately. You might ask over at the Teahouse if you're interested in it. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 21:48, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks for dropping in, Onel5969! Dr. Universe it's a doohickey called XFD Closer, which you can find in your Preferences under 'gadgets'. It adds a bunch of useful thingies, including 'logs', which lets you see previous deletions and other page actions. It also lets you close AfDs etc, but needs to be used with caution/within guidelines for closing. Like Twinkle, it's actually easy to access for such a powerful red button!!! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 06:22, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Alexandermcnabb: I think it would be a very bad idea to encourage someone starting out in this area to try closing XFDs. Closing XFDs needs experience and we don't have a huge shortage of people willing to do it. (Wikimedia commons, on the other hand...) Anyway, you should also be able to see what happened to the page if you go to the page history and click on the "View logs for this page" link, just under the page title. In this case, I think onel5969 is incorrect about it being deleted by prod. It was not deleted at all. It was moved to another variation of the same name, draftified, and that draft still exists at Draft:Jasur Alimdjanovich Rizayev. The redirects left over from the move were deleted but that's just a technical speedy deletion, not even a prod. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:58, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      - @David Eppstein: I agree and hope my comments weren't construed as encouragement for anyone to start closing things - "but needs to be used with caution/within guidelines for closing" wasn't meant to be construed as 'fill your boots and close stuff'. However, the tool IS in default preferences. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 07:39, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        @David Eppstein: - hi. I only have access to the deletion log, which is what I was basing my comments on. Without admin tools I do not think it is possible to ascertain the process you describe above. If it is possible, I'd love to know how. Thanks. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:14, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as doesn't seem to pass WP:NPROF. -Kj cheetham (talk) 14:34, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Seemingly like some others, I misunderstood what rector meant. :( -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:14, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Question: does the rectorship meet WP:NPROF C6? I know that in many central-european institutions, that is the highest administrative position. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 17:32, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep: I agree with Russ about the rectorship, and even without that, the 29 books is to me impressive for someone in a region where we typically don't see a lot of notable academics having Wikipedia articles. Keep in mind WP:SYSTEMIC and the lack of coverage (and lack of Wikipedians) we have from Uzbekhistan. I agree the article would benefit from a lot of improvement, but calls for this can be done with the template (which is already at the top of the article) rather than entirely deleting the article. Dr. Universe (talk) 19:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The subject is the chief editor of several scientific journals, the author of many books and the rector of one of the largest universities in his country. That's more than enough in terms of notability. Dr.KBAHT (talk) 22:33, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. It does seem he holds the highest administrative position at Samarkand State Medical Institute. I do want to note he didn't publish 29 books, he co-edited or contributed sections to a couple textbooks and authored some papers. Even if he had written 29 books solo we'd still need multiple book reviews and/or citations for that to matter for notability. He doesn't meet C8 with his editorship, as the journals [1] [2] [3] are not independent of his employment (they are published by SSMI) and aren't major well-established academic journals (only indexed by GS, CrossRef, and Elibrary). Also, it looks like his publications in both English and Cyrillic call him "Zhasur Rizaev" (Жасур Ризаев) but his university calls him either Rizaev Zhasur Alimdzhanovich or Rizayev Jasur Alimdjanovich; it would be helpful if someone with O'zbek or Russian background could comment on the proper COMMONNAME. JoelleJay (talk) 00:27, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I was wondering why the table on the main page listed "page numbers" for the book. Maybe they were only book chapters. Samarkand State Medical Institute (founded in 1930) is not even listed on the Uzbekistan article even though Westminster International University in Tashkent (established in 2002) and Turin Polytechnic University in Tashkent (established in 2009) are listed (it seems all universities, or at least the non-Russian ones, listed in the Uzbekistan article were established in the last 20 years, including TEAM University Tashkent which got university status in 2020). The 500 citations, h-index of 12 and i10-index of 20 on Google Scholar seems unusually large for a 46-year-old in Uzebkistan, especially since it seems all of his degrees were done locally, though his website says he's done "advanced training in France, Germany, Italy, Russia, Switzerland, Linchenstein, Korea, Japan" which would have needed funding that I suspect would not be easy to get if he was not notable in some way. However now I see that a large amount of the Wiki article seems to have been taken directly from https://www.sammi.uz/ru/pages/rector. I have changed my !vote from "keep" to "weak keep". I'm mindful of WP:SYSTEMIC bias in the coverage of articles and considering if we apply the "regular" NACADEMIC criteria we might end up with nearly 0 articles about academics in some countries/categories. I've listed this in the AfDs for "russian" related articles to get more people to look at it, per JoelleJay's comment. Dr. Universe (talk) 01:40, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If he indeed meets C6 the article should be kept, but if there's substantial COPYVIO it might need to be TNT'd and rewritten. The Rector website was last edited 21/4/5 so it does predate at least this version of our article, but I am not experienced in determining COPYVIO versus acceptable paraphrasing so best to ask at the relevant noticeboard if this is a concern. I'm guessing it's harder to prove plagiarism for translated/transliterated material though. JoelleJay (talk) 02:31, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The articles I wrote some years ago for Jiri Cizek and Donald James LeRoy got deleted almost instantly for "copyright violations" even though I had paraphrased and never came even close to copy-pasting. Yes, I determined that the article was almost entirely taken from the rector website based on Google Translate. The Wiki article is also in different languages though, so maybe those will match closer with the Rector website. I think it does indeed seem that the subject meets C6 and I'd say even C1 considering the subject's circumstances, but it does seem the article could benefit from a lot of work. Dr. Universe (talk) 02:38, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Passes WP:NPROF 6. The person has held a highest-level elected or appointed administrative post at a major academic institution or major academic society. If indeed he is rector of Samarkand State Medical Institute, he passes that criterion easily. Eccekevin (talk) 04:36, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - realized I didn't !vote before when I responded to a comment. I made the same mistake years ago in not realizing that Rector was the highest admin position at some Asian colleges/universities. Passes WP:NSCHOLAR. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 15:06, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per C6. JoelleJay (talk) 18:29, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Consensus now clearly indicates that the rectorship meets WP:NPROF C6, but I wanted to close the open loop of my early comment. I suggest removing the list of "books", which are mostly not actually books, from the article. (An energetic editor could replace it with a bulleted list of actual books, but it looks difficult to me to separate, especially without language proficiency.) Russ Woodroofe (talk) 07:49, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.