Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Riz Story

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I'm closing this early IAR to avoid further disruption by the subject and his PR staff. Someone unconnected with the subject is welcome to try to start another article, paying full regard to BLP sourcing requirements. DGG ( talk ) 03:45, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Riz Story

Riz Story (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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After spending a rather lengthy period of time with Riz Story on IRC working through their concerns with the article, I find myself in the unfortunate position of not actually finding enough information to merit an article. In cleaning it up I actually added more {{citation needed}} tags than I removed. There are plenty of minor facts that can easily be verified (such as his membership in various bands and the fact that he has made movies), but I simply could not find any significant, independent, reliable coverage about him. I cannot find any independent sources linking him to the TogethermenT label, nor can I find any good connection between him and the artists he's supposedly worked with (other than the website's he's apparently created for them).

TL;DR: fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. Primefac (talk) 05:14, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Everymorning (talk) 05:20, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

• This is Riz Story responding to the assertion that I have no connection to my label TogethermenT. My site is a currently being targeted by vandals. My company TogethermenT has many many websites. I will list just a few, all of which clearly exhibit full copyright claims by my company TogethermenT films, which I founded in 2000 and am the sole owner and CEO. www.awinterrose.com - www.anyoneden.net - www.etherealmusic.net - www.lilithcentral.com - https://www.facebook.com/cooperalanmusic/?fref=ts -

There is also the release of my album A WINTER ROSE The Official Soundtrack which contains every artist that the person below falsely claims I have no connection to. The artist manager can be reached for further verification that all of the artist mentioned are on contract with TogethermenT and work directly with me. The album credits and the numerous BILLBOARD Hot Singles Charts top ten songs also mention my label - The credits clearly state my name as composer and producer and I own 100% of copyrights and publishing for the music referenced on my page.

Lilith, "Badass Bitch" went to #1 on the BILLBOARD Hot Singles Chart, i wrote, produced, and released the track on my label, TogethermenT - ETHEREAL "Scattered Time" went to #5 on the BILLBOARD Hot singles chart, i wrote, produced, and released the song - COOPER ALAN'S first single went to #6 on the BILLBOARD Hot singles chart, i produced, arranged and released the single on my A WINTER ROSE official soundtrack album. All of these songs appear on my album A WINTER ROSE Official soundtrack on EVERY digital store including itunes, amazon etc.

As for the assertion that my page should be deleted, it's been up for over 16 years at which time I signed my first of many worldwide record deals. MAJOR WEB COVERAGE CURRENTLY UP: ALLMUSIC.COM, BILLBOARD, ROLLING STONE, METAL HAMMER, NME, VARIETY, EXTRA TV, MTV etc etc.-

As a director I currently have a film coming to theaters starring major hollywood names. See IMDB for verification - A WINTER ROSE Starring Billy Zane, Paul Sorvino, Theresa Russell, Kim Whalen, Taryn Manning, etc. etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meopa (talk • contribs) 06:03, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Meopa, once again you either intentionally or accidentally fail to read what has been posted. I never said you weren't connected to TogethermenT (or any of your artists/projects); I said I couldn't find evidence of such, and nothing approaching significant coverage of you as an artist. I have repeatedly asked you (on IRC and on the article's talk page) for suitable references and you have continually failed to give them. Primefac (talk) 06:07, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Beside facebook, itunes, variety, BILLBOARD, company websites, hundreds of pages of google results, spotify, over 250 online stores and endless press.. what exactly would you consider to be "evidence of such"  ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meopa (talk • contribs) 06:14, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to see some of that "endless press", actually. I looked through probably forty google search pages (both generic and GNews) and came up with nothing more than brief mentions (and, of course, the references on the article as it currently stands). The Variety411 piece is a good article, but it's the only in-depth coverage I can find. Primefac (talk) 06:20, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

A quick google search of the name RIZ STORY will reveal a 20 plus year, international career in music and film. press in variety, rolling stone, BILLBOARD etc is easily searchable. Everyone of the artist that he works with appear on this album A WINTER ROSE Official Soundtrack (LINK: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/winter-rose-original-soundtrack/id1163031474 )

the variety article mentions that i am a "long time veteran in the music business". who sent you to try and delete my page? I think the wikipedia community would like to know why your out to erase my page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meopa (talk • contribs) 06:28, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

If you want to be technical about it, you did. It's called the Streisand effect; you asked for help in IRC to fix your page due to recent vandalism. I was attempting to do so when I realized that it might not be suitable for inclusion on Wikipedia. I'm more than happy to be proven wrong, but so far I remain unconvinced.

Two notes: first, please add new comments at the bottom of a page. Second, make sure to sign your posts with ~~~~ so we know who's posting. Primefac (talk) 06:31, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

• Delete This person exists and has had a relatively minor career in show business. The majority of the sources brought forward are not reliable sources by Wikipedia standards. Variety411, for example, is a directory site, not a reliable news site. Facebook is the exact opposite of a reliable source. LinkedIn is not a reliable source. And so on. Mentioning a slew of unreliable sources is a waste of editor time. Most of these are passing mentions at best. I do not see a single reliable source that devotes significant coverage to this person as a biographical topic. Three solid reliable sources are better than dozens of lower quality sources. And I do not see even one solid reliable source. What I do see is a big effort at self-promotion. Wikipedia is not a venue for self-promotion. There are plenty of other websites for that. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:56, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

• Delete Walls of text above do not demonstrate notability, nor does the article. -Roxy the dog™ bark 11:59, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
• Keep Mr Story/User:Meopa is acting in the best possible way to get his article deleted and I've referred his actions to ANI at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Legal_threat_from_Riz_Story_.26_team, but if you step back from all the nonsense, I think there's sufficient to meet WP:MUSIC and WP:GNG. The first Anyone album got some reviews, he worked with Lilith on her "Badass Bitch" that did OK in the charts, he's made films that have got some attention. If one could dig through the self-promotion and walls of text, I believe there's enough left. Bondegezou (talk) 12:06, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
• Delete, I would like to see more stuff before keeping. Pyrusca (talk) 14:39, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
• FYI - Riz Story is on expedition leading a team of divers for NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC in FIJI. I am a long time staff member at TogethermenT and it has been assigned to me and my staff to guard the wiki page of Mr. Story that has been in existence without question for 16 years running. We do NOT wish to do this but are merely guarding the well earned reputation of MR. Story and his extensive achievements in both music and cinema. The vandalism of the page began 2 days ago and culminated with a LOCKING of the page from myself and my staff. Then came the movement to delete Mr. Story's page despite our supplying over 100 international press examples, ranging from MTV - VARIETY - BILLBOARD - EXTRA TV - BLABBERMOUT - LOUDWIRE - etc etc. Rather unexpectedly, administrators are taking offense to our efforts to protect Mr. Story's wiki page, classifying it as "self promotion?" we provide links to everything we state about Mr. Story, and in fact have left out much of note in order to keep his page concise. Also of note is that we have not built or maintained the page (aside from important updates this year), but rather it has evolved naturally at the hands of the public. This vandalism and motion to DELETE Mr. Story has required us to go the defensive and protect Mr. Story's web presence those who seek to downplay his career. JULIE WIESS — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meopa (talk • contribs) 17:08, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

• As a note, I have requested that Ms Wiess gets her own username. It's up to her to actually listen (unlike her boss). Primefac (talk) 17:28, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

• I would suggest that instead of posting a massive wall of links Meopa picks, say, 5 that look like the best ones and put those up for review. Nobody is going to review such a huge number of links and a handful of high quality sources are much better than huge numbers of poor quality ones. Hut 8.5 17:54, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

• Delete. Drowning a discussion in links to non-reliable sources or that lead to mentions don't lead to notability. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:24, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
• Delete it does look like the subject has credits on notable/potentially notable works and has worked with notable people and as part of a notable band, but I don't think he passes WP:GNG himself in his own right. The citations in the article don't demonstrate notability - they either aren't reliable (the Facebook/YouTube links) or aren't covering the subject in much detail (e.g. the LA Times article, which just mentions his name). I admit I haven't looked at all the huge number of links posted above but the random sample I looked at weren't impressive - again they either weren't reliable, didn't cover the subject in much detail (sometimes just a picture), and many had both problems.
  As an aside it looks like the subject and his staff have been closely monitoring and controlling the page with the expectation that they would be able to control the content of it. That simply isn't how Wikipedia works: we have our own standards which we stick to, people who work for the subject shouldn't be directly editing articles anyway per WP:COI, and yes people can write about the subject in a way you don't like. Hut 8.5 17:54, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

• This is Riz Story - I've been informed that an individual who goes by Primfac is trying to delete my page, which has been on wikipedia for 17 years... Lol. He (primefac) seems to have control over wikipedia and has unilaterally overseen the effort to delete my page and has currently locked it so no one but him can edit it. I trust the wiki community will protect the facts which are contained on my page and facilitate the harmonious relationship that I have had with Wiki for nearly 2 decades. Cheers! Rip Story

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Riz Story (talk • contribs)

• Riz, thanks for commenting. I thought you were in Fiji. I also thought that I'd been talking to you since yesterday. Crazy, huh? I really suggest that you stop posting the same damn links every time you post, it's getting tedious. I had nothing to do with the page being protected, and I am clearly not the only person able to edit the page. At the moment I'm just trying to firefight you and your PR team from continually hampering this discussion by posting inordinately long walls of text on it. Primefac (talk) 18:10, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

• Actually, your listed as the only person who wanted my page deleted. why exactly? There is a massive internet presence regarding my career - and every time my staff post it you scold them and hide it under a green tag, as if it's not pertinent. If your mission is to personally attack me at least be honest about it.

• As mentioned in the comment by Crash below, I nominated the page, I'm not unilaterally deciding it should be deleted. I am not personally attacking you. I am making it easier for others who are engaged in this discussion to find the actual, well, discussion. I have hidden the links provided by your staff because wading through 300 lines of links just to find the actual conversation is difficult. If I say "here are 300 lines of links" then it's easier to digest. Primefac (talk) 18:27, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Delete clearly fails WP:GNG. Actually, no, they are the one that nominated it. There's a difference. Notice all the ones saying delete? Yeah, we're the ones that think it needs to be deleted. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 18:24, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

• The TogethermenT staff has provided 100's of international press links, websites, albums for sale, films currently in theaters, films from the past, links verifying everything on the RIZ STORY page which has been in existence for 17 years. And yet, there is a motion to delete the page? Is wikipedia a mob rule? Up until 2 days ago, I thought wikipedia was about facts. I guess not. Riz Story — Preceding unsigned comment added by Riz Story (talk • contribs) 18:38, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

  It is about WP:RS. You haven't provided any/enough. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 18:39, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

• Comment Sorting through the links provided, I would say these 3 are of better quality: [1], [2], [3] However, they all related to the act Infinika/Anyone, so that would imply a merge to Anyone might be one solution. Better sourcing for the film work would justify a separate Riz Story article. Bondegezou (talk) 20:45, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
• Delete After searching I was unable to identify any reliable sources. Samf4u (talk) 21:10, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
• delete (and salt) Just self promotion, sources distinctly lacking. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:09, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.