Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ramsey Orta (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The decision is undecided between keep and redirect. Sandstein 09:04, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ramsey Orta[edit]

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Fails WP:BLP1E, all of the notability arises from his filming the Killing of Eric Garner and the subsequent police harassment and arrest. Like nearly all arrests that generate coverage, there was also coverage following his release, but all of the coverage of Orta references his filming of Garner's killing, and as such the article fails WP:BLP1E, and nothing in this article is not already covered at Killing of Eric Garner. This was previously brought to AFD and redirected, however that has been reverted. Nableezy 23:43, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. nableezy - 23:43, 31 October 2021 (UTC) 23:43, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Journalism-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 23:53, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 23:53, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There is extensive coverage of Orta's imprisonment and treatment throughout that extends far beyond his role in the Garner case. The Verge wrote a full-length feature article on Orta. On Orta's treatment in prison, see New York Amsterdam News, the Rolling Stone, the Gothamist, and Insider, among many others. If this was BLP1E, there would only be coverage of his role in filming Garner's death. Each of the sources above show that not to be the case. czar 00:02, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Verge article opens with Ramsey Orta filmed the killing of Eric Garner. The video traveled far, but it wouldn't get justice for his dead friend. Instead, the NYPD would exact their revenge through targeted harassment and eventually imprisonment — Orta's punishment for daring to show the world police brutality. It makes clear that Orta's notability is specifically tied to filming Garner's killing and the resulting harassment from that. So does every other source about him. Every single source about Orta discusses him within the context of having filmed Garner's killing. The Gothamist opens with Ramsey Orta, Who Filmed The Police Killing Of Eric Garner. The Insider opens with The police officer who fatally choked Eric Garner has been fired. The guy who filmed it is still in prison., NY Amsterdam News opens with The man who filmed Eric Garner’s death continues to suffer at the hands of law enforcement. The Rolling Stone opens with Ramsey Orta, Man Who Filmed Eric Garner’s Arrest, Has Been Released From Prison. There is no coverage of Orta outside of the context of his having filmed Garner's killing. nableezy - 14:47, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And after that paragraph the entire rest of the feature-length article is about Orta's prison treatment and multiple law enforcement-related incidents covering his life independent from the Garner case. I've already covered how the other articles are about Orta's life and imprisonment, not his connection to Garner, no matter how the lede opens. It is absolutely significant coverage. czar 23:32, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Are you looking at the same article as I am? After that paragraph the rest of the article is about his imprisonment? The article talks about Garner and his killing throughout. Five of the first six non-single line paragraphs are about him filming Garner's death. And throughout it frames the imprisonment as a result of Orta's filming Garner's death. It is inextricably linked, which is why you cant find a single article that talks about Orta without talking about his having filmed Garner's killing. The Verge article, and every other one, is very clearly placing all of this in the context of the filming of Garner's death. Orta, outside of filming Garner's death and the resulting police harassment campaign is likely to remain a low-profile individual. And everything in this article, every single piece of information, is already in the article on Eric Garner's killing. Yes, there is one article about Orta that provides significant coverage about him. But in the context of his having filmed Garner's death. And oh by the way, that source was already in the article when it was redirected by consensus in the first AFD. nableezy - 03:10, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The articles are allowed to mention his connection to Garner. The bar is whether Orta is well-documented as an individual beyond the context of that single event (BLP1E) and from the aforementioned reams of material on other aspects of his life, the answer is yes. He is a high-profile individual. czar 11:55, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They do not mention his connection to Garner, they place the entirety of the coverage within his connection to garner. Again, what BLP1E says is if the person is only covered within the context of the event. And no, he is not a high profile individual. If he were, you would find coverage unrelated to his "connection" to Garner. You likewise havent addressed the fact that the Verge article was already in the article redirected by consensus in the first AFD. Just asserted your right to ignore that consensus. nableezy - 12:53, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, as the coverage is enough for notabilityJackattack1597 (talk) 00:01, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Joe (talk) 18:58, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 23:30, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Killing of Eric Garner.-KH-1 (talk) 03:15, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep He has clearly gained notability independently of Eric Garner through his treatment by the NYPD. I don't accept the argument that mentioning that he filmed Eric Garner's death means that everything else about him is necessarily subservient to that fact. Yes, his treatment by the NYPD is a result of filming Eric Garner's death, but deletion debates should not turn on causality; they are discrete events and should be treated as such. Mlb96 (talk) 08:03, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm indecisive here. Either keep, per Czar's comment, or merge/redirect to Killing of Eric Garner. I'm not fully supportive/opposing to either. Waddles 🗩 🖉 05:00, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.