Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Puteri Indonesia Pariwisata

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Stifle (talk) 11:40, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Puteri Indonesia Pariwisata[edit]

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This article must be deleted, a duplication of the section in the Puteri Indonesia. It does not need a separate article in view of the fact that it's a runner up position in the Puteri Indonesia pageant, not a separate pageant. Richie Campbell (talk) 14:08, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions. Z1720 (talk) 14:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Indonesia-related deletion discussions. Z1720 (talk) 14:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For similar reason, I'm bundling the deletion with Puteri Indonesia Lingkungan ---Richie Campbell (talk) 15:38, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. While in the west, beauty pageants are seen as no big deal, and rather looked down upon (female objectification!), in several countries in Asia (Indonesia, India, Phillipines) they are a Big Deal. So while Puteri Indonesia Pariwisata is awarded as a runner up position to Puteri Indonesia, it is an important title of its own. She gets to tour and perform in a way that the runners-up to Miss America or Miss USA, for example, just don't. And the three top winners of Puteri Indonesia go on to compete in three different important and unrelated international pageants, with the main Puteri Indonesia competing for Miss Universe, Puteri Indonesia Lingkungan (which I see you've also nominated for deletion, so we'll be arguing there as well) competing for Miss International, and Puteri Indonesia Pariwisata competing for Miss Supranational. They have three separate substantial articles in the Indonesian Wikipedia (which has many fewer articles than ours does): https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puteri_Indonesia https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puteri_Indonesia_Pariwisata https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puteri_Indonesia_Lingkungan. Most importantly for our purposes, Puteri Indonesia Pariwisata gets significant coverage on its own, enough to meet the Wikipedia:General Notability Guideline without Puteri Indonesia. For example, all these are unrelated non-trivial articles from reliable sources about Puteri Indonesia Pariwisata, not about Puteri Indonesia:

There are more, if needed, I'm sure I can find hundreds, these are just from the first few pages of searching. --GRuban (talk) 16:06, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- Ah, I see you've combined them (I was writing the reply while these were separate AfDs). Well, the same logic applies to Puteri Indonesia Lingkungan, and here are some non-trivial articles about that as well:

Again, these are just the first few. --GRuban (talk) 17:15, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi GRuban. The fact remains that it is part of Puteri Indonesia pageant and the article is a duplication of the section of the Puteri Indonesia article. Regarding the sources you provided, the same is true for Miss Earth or even in the Miss Philippines Earth elemental queens i.e., Miss Earth Water, Miss Earth Air, and Miss Earth Fire; these titles (not a runner up position as per organizers) are being awarded during the finals, they perform their duties and get to travel the whole year, they get publicities and with plethora of reliable sources but I just don't see them having a separate article because they are held in one pageant night but you can use these sources to cite the winners. The sources that you provided should be used to support the Puteri Indonesia and also the annual article of Puteri Indonesia e.,g Puteri Indonesia 2019, Puteri Indonesia 2020 to indicate the list of winners.---Richie Campbell (talk) 16:58, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's like saying the Vice President of the United States is just part of the President of the United States, so we shouldn't have a separate article for it. They are separate offices, even if they are elected at the same time in the same way at the same location, and they are each sufficiently notable. If there are enough independent in-depth articles from reliable sources about Miss Earth Water, then we can have a Miss Earth Water article, when someone gets around to writing it. That's the point of Wikipedia:General Notability Guideline, that's how we tell which deserves its own article, not just "what is part of what". We've got separate articles for Miss New York, even though that's just part of Miss America, and these winners are much more notable in every way than Miss New York, they represent more people, they get more articles written about them, they do more national and international events, etc. Heck, it seems we have separate articles for each of the Category:Miss America state pageants! --GRuban (talk) 17:15, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Its different between Puteri Indonesia, Puteri Indonesia Lingkungan and Puteri Indonesia Pariwisata, they are a different titleholders, different pageants and they even has each crown and sash that lettering on their chest. Puteri Indonesia is the organization that was the national franchise holder for Miss Universe Indonesia, but there is also 2 other organization, which we called Puteri Indonesia Lingkungan-(Miss International Indonesia) who is focusing on environmental awareness and Puteri Indonesia Pariwisata-(Miss Supranational Indonesia) who is focusing on Tourism in Indonesia. And each of them are work with Indonesian President each year. Its like the same happen with Miss USA organization who also crowned Miss Teen USA at the same stage, same event and place each year, but they’re different pageants, different title with different titleholders. And even Miss USA itself has many articles such as Miss Texas USA, Miss California USA, Miss Hawaii USA, and many more!--I Nyoman Gede Anila (talk) 13:07, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.