Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pretty Nose

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) DavidLeighEllis (talk) 02:07, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty Nose[edit]

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Reads, in its entirety,

Pretty Nose (c. 1851 – after 1952) was an Arapaho woman war chief who participated in the Battle of Little Big Horn in 1876.[1] Pretty Nose's grandson, Mark Soldier Wolf, who became an Arapaho Tribal Elder, served in the US Marine Corps during the Korean War. She witnessed his return to the Wind River Indian Reservation in 1952, at the age of 101.

WP:NOPAGE, WP:PERMASTUB EEng (talk) 02:42, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure the size of page is a reason to delete, is it? JMWt (talk) 08:34, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~Weak delete~~ I can't seem to find any other sources on Pretty Nose. There's more information on her grandson who was the actual subject of the Al Jazeera story. He could be a plausible draft. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 09:24, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought, move to draftspace based on Legacypac's comments below. There is a possibility of sources to expand upon based on the image it seems. At the moment the stub isn't much but there could be enough later. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 11:07, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand, why are you suggesting it should go to draftspace? JMWt (talk) 11:40, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The sources discuss the notability of the picture not her personally and I think there's enough that with some work, there could be significant coverage found. As is, it could be moved and remade into an article on the image I guess. I can tell it's a minority view and I may strike it out again if I see sources about her. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 09:20, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor ^Talk! 09:32, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor ^Talk! 09:32, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Featured Image on Commons

. *Keep this is a hard name to search but the extensive use of her image alone should qualify her as notable. Frankly she is pretty famous for a women of her time, or even today. Here [1] she is indexed to Page 3 and she appears on the cover. A photo of her [2] and [3] (scroll down 50% of the way) and a different photo here [4] and [5] and in the ref article another version [6] We know she was photographed at Fort_Keogh. While not named, her photo is the only one used to represent the native warriors here Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn#Native_American_leaders_and_warriors_in_the_battle. The photo and her are mentioned as an important event here 1879_in_the_United_States#Undated and her photographer Laton_Alton_Huffman is well regarded, with this being one of his more famous photographs.

Also Pretty Nose is used to represent natives here [[7]]. Her picture is the center of a mural here [8] and found here with the Montana Historical Society [9]

There seems to be enough info to do a short bio on Mark Soldier Wolf as well. [10] a photo collection on him [11] a blog only [12] multipage coverage in a book [13], portrait at Buffalo Bill Center [14], page 10 of this book [[15]] since he has had coverage as leader of his tribe and for losing his land to a uranium plant. Legacypac (talk) 10:49, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've done some updates to the article. We are not likely to find a ton of info (she predates the internet) but the photo really is widely used and notable. We have plenty of articles on historical figures with not a lot of detail. The fact she lived past 100 is not her claim to fame (unlike other old people bios at AfD), its her role as a female war chief in a famous battle and the fact her photographs are quite famous. Legacypac (talk) 11:45, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, seems to me that there are two issues here. First, is a person notable because their photograph is well noted? I don't really know. Second, do we have enough sources to show notability for this person? Very difficult to say - do we know how many chiefs there were, how often characters are painted onto murals etc? But in general, I think saying that someone is notable because their relative did something and we have well used photos of her is probably pretty weak. That said, I'm coming down on the side of keep as the stub that it was until/unless someone can find more relevant secondary sources to cite on the topic. JMWt (talk) 12:08, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep A shame Phaedriel (talk · contribs) isn't around anymore, she may have some idea where we could look to get more info on Pretty Nose. That having been said, I think the article meets our minimum inclusion criteria and can remain here. TomStar81 (Talk) 22:06, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep at least until stronger delete reasons are given CapnZapp (talk) 14:11, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I put links to a book or two that covers her in what appears to be multiple page detail but I could only see the index page. Finding an obit would be great. I did not do book or journal searching, just targeted Googling with her tribe name etc to weed out results that just had Pretty Nose as common words. Legacypac (talk) 23:50, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.