Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/President (game) (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 03:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

President (game)

One of the unsourced, and at this time externally unverifiable drinking game articles listed in a mass deletion earlier today (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Circle of Death (drinking game)) Per the closing statement of this aborted mass-nomination, this is an individual relist of the article. -- Saberwyn 07:51, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, although it needs sourcing. I've played this game (with others who knew how to play it) on three continents (for what that's worth). Here's the many many Ghits [1] -- Samir (the scope) धर्म 08:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete drunkcruft.ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 08:37, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep On four other Wikipedias, appears to have commercial releases. -- Saberwyn 10:50, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per Saberwyn, appears to be notable. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 11:01, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Adding a request for verifiable sources to this article page would be a good way to start this process. Not having verification isn't an automatic deletion criterion, being unverifiable is - an important distinction. Before nominating an article for deletion, shouldn't the nominator at least research the article themselves, adding the sources if possible? I haven't tackled notability as this is not the reason given for nomination, but all drinking game are cultural memes that have lasted in many cases for centuries and appear in various places in popular literature etc. Vizjim 11:42, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I've found lots of references to this game on the web. Not fantastically reputable sources, but then this is a drinking game, not rocket science. Kevin 11:53, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, listed in the Best Drinking Games Book Ever as "Dictator," possibly the most known drinking game out there. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 13:17, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. Much of the article borders on original research, but the same claim could be made of 85% of the articles on WP. We should, instead, work on getting the article sourced rather than indiscriminately deleting it. — Music Maker 17:56, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep. This is a very widely-known card game in my generation. I've never heard of it used as a drinking game... But that's an editorial matter. Grand master ka 18:04, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep per Samir, Vizjim, andbadlydrawnjeff, among others. Fluit 18:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete WP:NOT ... an indiscriminate collection of stuff, number 8 (instruction manual). Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:49, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. On any entry on a game, it'll be nearly impossible to write about it without reference to the rules. A cleanup might be necessary, but immediately leaping to deletion is unnecessary. Fluit 22:25, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
{{sofixit}}. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 00:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just responding to the "share your thoughts on the matter" portion of the AfD template. But I'll add a cleanup tag, for what it's worth. Fluit 01:30, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I presume that in referring to WP:NOT you are specifically talking about "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information", point 8? This says, I quote - Instruction manuals - while Wikipedia has descriptions of people, places, and things, Wikipedia articles should not include instruction - advice (legal, medical, or otherwise), suggestions, or contain "how-to"s. This includes tutorials, walk-throughs, instruction manuals, video game guides, and recipes. An article on "President" has the obvious potential to contain a) history and evolution of the game, b) its cultural significance, c) appearances in books, on TV shows, in films etc, and thus is more than simply a collection of rules (it doesn't matter if these things are not there or haven't been completed: the fact is, they could be inserted). However, the rules need to be included as otherwise it would be impossible to give a clear idea of the game - and I presume you are not arguing that the entries for Chess and Soccer should be deleted? Vizjim 10:53, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Samir --Phenz 01:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep Very popular and common game, I just played it yesterday with friends, keep please; its real, I swear. - Patman2648 03:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep Very common well-known card game. Just check Google. [2] [3] I should also add it is not necessarily a drinking game. Cedars 10:54, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Wikipedia is not paper; this is a sub page of the drinking game article. JeffBurdges 15:28, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep per Cedars. Cohen the Bavarian 14:52, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
keep this and all other notable games Yuckfoo 01:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.