Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pratisaad - The Response

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 17:14, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pratisaad - The Response[edit]

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Also nominating:

I came across these articles via Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sorry (2017 film) (2nd nomination). All these articles have a history of socks, and most of the content cant be verified. Because of hoax of "Gadbad Gondhal", I have reasons to believe the "Sorry (2017)" is a hoax as well.

Pratisaad - The Response
This film fails general notability guidelines, as there is not significant coverage in the reliable sources. The film's only claims to the notability were participation in two film festivals, and an award won at one of them.

The article claims that the film was screened at Toronto International Film Festival 2010. This is a blatant lie, as it was not screened in 2010, and just to make sure neither in 2011

The article also claims that the film won "Best Feature Film on Social Issue (Special Award)" at "Dadasaheb Phalke Film Festival Award 2010", which again is blatant lie; as the film festival was established in the year 2011.

That makes the film fail WP:NFILM. As it already fails general notability guidelines, it doesnt deserve an article.

Gadbad Gondhal
First of all, this film fails WP:GNG, and WP:NFILM by all the means. The troubling thing about that film is, as of 2017, it was claimed the film is "upcoming movie", but the one of the major actor of the film Anand Abhyankar has already died. Back in Dec 2012. According to some sources, the movie was released in 2012; and according to some sources, it was 2013. Yet, the article states the release date as July 27, 2018.

In any case, this film fails WP:GNG, and WP:NFILM.

Yogesh Dattatraya Gosavi
This brings us to the director of the aforementioned three films (including Sorry (2017 film)). Just like most of the information in these articles is false, most of the information from Gosavi's article can not be verified. The article claims that he has directed, written, and edited three films. All of which are now at AfD. With the explanation provided above for the two films, it is clear that this director fails WP:DIRECTOR. He also fails WP:GNG. I believe all these articles of three films, and Ambarnath Film Festival were created just so Gosavi could have his article.

I hereby nominate these three articles (Pratisaad - The Response, Gadbad Gondhal, and Yogesh Dattatraya Gosavi for deletion. Regards, —usernamekiran(talk) 20:43, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 21:17, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 21:17, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all three as there are hoax concerns that are proven and in any case they do not pass WP:GNG and WP:NFILM, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 21:28, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete nominator's analysis is convincing. Appear to be hoax. -Zanhe (talk) 06:41, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Just because some possible errors have been found in the articles does not make them lies (which are deliberate deceptions). For example, you claimed that the film having won an award is a lie because the festival was established in 2011, however, the source given is archived here [1], whether they are different awards or someone wrote the sentence wrong does not make it a deliberate lie. There are also other archived sources on the film - [2][3]. Hzh (talk) 09:44, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Hzh: Hi. Phalke award, and Phalke film festivals are two different things. The source you provided is about the awards. The source says Makers of films with commercial values like ‘Rita’, ‘Hello Gandhe Sir’, social values like ‘Umang’, ‘Pratisaad’, ‘Janm’ and those films with rural backdrop like ‘Gosht Dongraevdhi’, ‘Urus’ were also felicitated along with films like ‘Ajoba Vayat Aale’, ‘Kamapurta Vima’, ‘Baap Manus’, and ‘Konti Bayko Karu’ which received a special mention. The film nor the director didn't get any award. And without that award, it still fails both the guidelines. —usernamekiran(talk) 19:49, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I read "Pratisaad [...] were also felicitated" to mean the film was awarded, otherwise the article would not make any sense. Whatever that news article may mean, it would read like the sentence in this article was poorly worded and badly sourced rather than a deliberate lie. As for the specific award, there are probably sources in Marathi for the awards, which you would be better placed to search for. Hzh (talk) 20:06, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: As per nominator. --✝iѵɛɳ२२४०^{†ลℓк †๏ мэ} 13:02, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. I checked the ref cited in Pratisaad - The Response that it had won "Best Feature Film on Social Issue (Special Award)" at "Dadasaheb Phalke Film Festival Award 2010". The ref does say it was "Felicitated" there, but it does not say it won that (or any other specifically named) award. I removed the claim from the article. DMacks (talk) 17:26, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me the article use "felicitated" to mean "awarded", otherwise the article doesn't make sense. Hzh (talk) 19:40, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@DMacks: First Phalke award was awarded in 1969. First Phalke film festival took place in 2011. This a list of the Phalke award winners. None of the subjects of AfD are there. —usernamekiran(talk) 20:05, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

They only give a single award a year? Just curious, also a bit confused, because the 2010 winner was not mentioned in the archived article (it also used the plural in "awards"). Hzh (talk) 20:10, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is this the actual award ceremony referred to in the archived source - Dadasaheb Marathi Chitrapatr Mahotsav-2010 ? Hzh (talk) 21:47, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Hzh: Hi. Kindly look at 0:43. Throughout the video, posters (hardcopies) related to Indian National Congress can be seen. At 0:03 one can see hard copy photo (not on screen) of Soniya Gandhi. I cant be sure what it is, but it is definitely neither Phalke awards, nor the festival. —usernamekiran(talk) 01:03, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it does appear to be another award, which I assume was televised from that clip. I think whoever that wrote that part in the article simply made a mistake. Hzh (talk) 02:10, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would have believed it was a mistake, but after looking at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Ivan Disouza; I cant. I mean, I am all in for assuming good faith, but in this case I can't. Ivan is the director himself. Just a week ago, a sock accused Tiven of COI. And to prove that they edited IMDB. Dadasaheb Phalke Award is very big deal. The chances of mistakes are zero here. There was no way somebody thought this movie won the Phalke award. And we know the festival started in 2011. Whoever did it, did it deliberately. Before creating this bundled AfD, I spent something like 3 hours (in two days) to search about everything. I came across a few accounts on YouTube which I think is the director again. —usernamekiran(talk) 03:26, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Whoever wrote it did not claim that the film won that Phalke award (of which only one appears to be given per year), but another one - Best Feature Film on Social Issue of the Dadasaheb Phalke Film Festival Award. The full name of the award seems to be Dadasaheb Phalke Marathi Chitrapat Mahotsav, what does "Chitrapat Mahotsav" means? Was it televised, and if it was televised, wouldn't it suggest it is a notable award? Hzh (talk) 03:44, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Hzh: Chitrapat means film, and mahotsav means festival. "Dadasaheb Phalke Marathi Chitrapat Mahotsav" would mean Dadasaheb Phalke (a person's name) Marathi (language, also my mother-tongue) film festival. —usernamekiran(talk) 03:54, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Hzh: I found a list of all winners by year here. The 2011 list of winners doesnt mention the film/director, nor the 2012 winners. —usernamekiran(talk) 07:06, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The article [4] was published and archived in 2010, and you can see from the picture in the article that it is about the same event in the video (you can see the same four persons at the start of the video) - [5]. It is clear to me then that there was a Dadasaheb Phalke Marathi Film Festival in 2010, and that the film was recognised at the festival somehow. Whether the film festival was rebranded/relaunched/replaced in 2011 or what I don't know, but it is also clear to me that whoever that wrote it was at the least partly accurate. Hzh (talk) 10:02, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

At this point I have come to believe that either Gosavi, or someone else monetarily involved with the films paid off non RS to publish that the film has received awards. Other articles in non RS or RS are based on either pay offs, or on the false information from paid off articles. The photo in the article, is from the video; yes. But I am positive that video isnt of Phalke awards, nor Phalke film festival. In any case, we have no evidence suggesting there was a festival in 2010. All the sources clearly mention it began in 2011. In any case, winning an award in such a non notable festival wouldnt make it pass WP:NFILM. I am not sure why I spent my time discussing this. —usernamekiran(talk) 08:26, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Look, this is getting into conspiracy theory territory and what you said simply doesn't make any rational sense. The news article is from 2010, it was archived in June 2010 by an independent body, long before any article about the person or his work appear in Wikipedia. You can see in the video at 30 second the initial DPMCM with a picture of someone who looks like Dadasaheb Phalke. Therefore whatever that is, it happened in 2010 and it has the initials of the film festival with the picture of the person named. Hzh (talk) 10:45, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Phalke died in 1944. The best way to en any conspiracy is to have reliable sources. If we have reliable sources that the movie won this particular award, it's fine. If not, we are failing WP:V. Even if it has won that award, it doesn't make the movie pass WP:NFILM. —usernamekiran(talk) 10:57, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Enough.In India, we have thousands of award ceremonies which poach upon the names of significant figures in the field or the names of already existing notable award ceremonies et al to confer an illegitimate legitimacy upon themselves.

Thus, we can make two assumptions

(1)-->>The festival/awards/felicitations exist and fits my definition above, which also explains why the event has not been covered any in reliable vernacular sources.

(2)-->>As Kiran sez, a non-RS has been paid to write quasi-hoax stuff.FWIW, we have discovered popular media-units like TOI to be paid to write spammy-rubbish, as to promote a film.Hardly surprising.

Either of them doesn't do any good to this article, and that's a delete from me, per nom.∯WBG^converse 15:52, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is for Pratisaad alone. It is considered a notable film by this reliable source.—Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 13:41, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Cpt.a.haddock, that's as trivial as one can get. ∯WBG^converse 15:04, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is trivial. This, not so much. Being listed as an example of the new age of Marathi films by the Routledge Handbook of Indian Cinemas, again, not so much.—Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 15:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cpt.a.haddock, the question is whether it does pass WP:GNG or WP:NFILM.To me, it is a no but you can choose to differ. ∯WBG^converse 05:08, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.