Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Posturology

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete all. Sandstein 18:15, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Posturology

Non-extant branch of medical science. Article perpetuates the views of one particular individual, and cites his own work. Delete please. JFW | T@lk 00:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can we vote simultaneously about postural disorder by the same author and with the same content problems? JFW | T@lk 00:25, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Appears to be an extremely obscure branch of alternative medicine. NOTE - most of the articles in Google scholar refer to an attempt to develop a way to use the posture of patients during psychoanalysis "Analytic posturology", which is unrelated to the subject of this particular article. In the seven PubMed hits on this subject only PMID 15844769 seems a good source, but I think this paper might be enough to establish notability. I'd redirect all the subsiduary articles to posturology and then cut to a stub to reflect what is in the reliable sources on the subject. Tim Vickers (talk) 02:14, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I am pretty sure that seven PubMed articles are insufficient to establish notability. JFW | T@lk 10:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, I'm unsure on notability myself. It certainly isn't a hoax, but as the author themselves says, this is not a accepted part of medicine. At present the article does not establish notability, and uses self-published sources, so I'm leaning towards delete, unless this is completely rewritten with better sources. Tim Vickers (talk) 16:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect all Keep and heavily rewrite. It looks a lot like Feldenkrais Method except where Feldenkrais practitioners deliberately ignore the underlying causes of poor posture and/or movement, these practitioners seem to claim that real benefits cannot be obtained without knowing exactly the underlying causes. It's "treat the symptom" vs "find the cure". Some people who do this stuff call it "movement analysis" and "movement therapy", etc. --Una Smith (talk) 05:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll go with Tim Vicker's plan. See also the many links on Human position. --Una Smith (talk) 05:31, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - I think there are two things going on here.

Promotion of the claim that posturology refers to a specific school of thought, the thought as yet unpublished. This is original research and does not belong on Wikipedia.
Use of the term "posturology" in the (French and Italian) medical literature. This term may qualify as a neologism, in which case it may yet fail the test for inclusion in Wiktionary.

On both counts, the material doesn't belong here, yet. --Una Smith (talk) 14:40, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep all posture related articles from paoloplatania:I legitimate these article and the author as:

- I am neutral concerning this issue

- The aim to guide the development of posturology concept under wikipedia are scientific, clear and pursued according to wikipedia wikipedia approach

- I added a single bibliographic citation to my material in order not to use ambiguous external link to a bibliographic gatherer nor to burden with the complete cited bibliograpic source list

- if less self-promoting suspect, I gladly substitute:

1) Paolo Platania (2008). Evidence of vagal mediated relationship between tongue-motor-insufficiency and postural-disorders: craniocervical-extension spasm induced by upper-airway-patency-maintenance-reflex elicited by augmented airflow resistance owed to neurogenic tongue weakness, a case study. Posture, etiology of a syndrome

with complete list:

1) Mateika JH, Millrood DL, Kim J, Rodriguez HP, Samara GJ. (1999): Response of human tongue protrudor and retractors to hypoxia and hypercapnia. Am J Respir Crit Care Med. 160:1976-82

2) Megirian D, Hinrichsen CF, Sherrey JH. (1985): Respiratory roles of genioglossus, sternothyroid, and sternohyoid muscles during sleep. Exp Neurol. 90:118-28

3) Parisi RA, Neubauer JA, Frank MM, Edelman NH, Santiago TV. (1987): Correlation between genioglossal and diaphragmatic responses to hypercapnia during sleep. Am Rev Respir Dis. 135:378-82

4) Kuna ST, Smickley J. (1988): Response of genioglossus muscle activity to nasal airway occlusion in normal sleeping adults. J Appl Physiol. 64:347-53

5) Leiter JC, Daubenspeck JA. (1990): Selective reflex activation of the genioglossus in humans. J Appl Physiol. 68:2581-7

6) M. Murat Özbek, Keisuke Miyamoto, Alan A. Lowe, John A. Fleetham. (1998): Natural head posture, upper airway morphology and obstructive sleep apnoea severity in adults. European Journal of Orthodontics 20:133–143

7) Fregosi RF, Fuller DD. (1997): Respiratory-related control of extrinsic tongue muscle activity. Respir Physiol. 110:295-306

8) Fuller DD, Williams JS, Janssen PL, Fregosi RF. (1999): Effect of co-activation of tongue protrudor and retractor muscles on tongue movements and pharyngeal airflow mechanics in the rat. J Physiol. 2:601-13

9) Wilson JR, Sumner AJ, Eichelman J. (1994): Aberrant reinnervation following hypoglossal nerve damage. Muscle Nerve. 178:931-5

10) Ney T, Goz G. (1993) Force-moment measurements on the passive palatal arch under the influence of the tongue. Fortschr Kieferorthop. 546:249-54

11) Thuer U, Sieber R, Ingervall B. (1999) Cheek and tongue pressures in the molar areas and the atmospheric pressure in the palatal vault in young adults. Eur J Orthod. 21:299-309

12) Frohlich K, Thuer U, Ingervall B. (1991) Pressure from the tongue on the teeth in young adults. Angle Orthod. 61:17-24

13) Saboisky JP, Butler JE, Fogel RB, Taylor JL, Trinder JA, White DP, Gandevia SC. (2006): Tonic and phasic respiratory drives to human genioglossus motoneurons during breathing. J Neurophysiol. 95:2213-21

14) Penzel T, Moller M, Becker HF, Knaack L, Peter JH. (2001): Effect of sleep position and sleep stage on the collapsibility of the upper airways in patients with sleep apnea. Sleep. 24:90-5

15) Neill AM, Angus SM, Sajkov D, McEvoy RD. (1997): Effects of sleep posture on upper airway stability in patients with obstructive sleep apnea. Am J Respir Crit Care Med. 155:199-204

16) Amis TC, O'Neill N, Wheatley JR. (1999): Oral airway flow dynamics in healthy humans. J Physiol. 515:293-8

17) Andrew L. Carney, Evelyn M. Anderson. (1981): Hypoglossal Carotid Entrapment Syndrome. Adv Neurol. 30:223-47

18) Eikermann M, Vogt FM, Herbstreit F, Vahid-Dastgerdi M, Zenge MO, Ochterbeck C, de Greiff A, Peters J. (2007): The predisposition to inspiratory upper airway collapse during partial neuromuscular blockade. Am J Respir Crit Care Med. 175:9-15

19) Bademci G, Batay F, Yasargil MG. (2006): "Triple cross" of the hypoglossal nerve and its microsurgical impact to entrapment disorders. Minim Invasive Neurosurg. 49:234-7

20) Bademci G, Yasargil MG. (2006): Microsurgical anatomy of the hypoglossal nerve. J Clin Neurosci. 13:841-7

21) Ho AM, Chung DC, Karmakar MK, Gomersall CD, Peng Z, Tay BA. (2006): Dynamic airflow limitation after topical anaesthesia of the upper airway. Anaesth Intensive Care. 34:211-5

22) Liistro G, Stănescu DC, Veriter C, Rodenstein DO, D'Odemont JP. (1992): Upper airway anesthesia induces airflow limitation in awake humans. Am Rev Respir Dis. 146:581-5

23) DeWeese EL, Sullivan TY. (1988): Effects of upper airway anesthesia on pharyngeal patency during sleep. J Appl Physiol. 64:1346-53

24) Koo BB, Dostal J, Ioachimescu O, Budur K. (2007): The effects of gender and age on REM-related sleep-disordered breathing. Sleep Breath. ahead of print

25) Pompeiano O. (1975): The control of posture and movements during REM sleep: neurophysiological and neurochemical mechanisms. Acta Astronaut. 2:225-39

~~--Paoloplatania (talk) 08:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)~~[reply]

I agree with deletion of all my articles concerning posturology, as I'm new question is: is the author himself responsable of undoing articles ? If so let me know--Paoloplatania (talk) 15:05, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- Paolo, you indicate on WT:MED that this is a field of your interest that you are presently developing. Your sources are all interesting, but they do not tell us how many people apart from you practice posturology, whether there are diagnostic and therapeutic guidelines and professional associations. However fascinating and under-studied this aspect of health science, I cannot presently establish its notability. This does not mean that your theory is wrong, it just means it is not yet ready for inclusion on Wikipedia. Could you comment on Una Smith's assertion that there are links with the Feldenkrais method? JFW | T@lk 10:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem JFW, I perfectly understand my position and I agree that posturology requires way much more effort to have it scientifically aknowledged and only after that it may be exposed over wikipedia, I realise I was attempting to use wikipedia as a widespreading platform in order to arouse scientific interest around my theory but, given it's lack of aknowledgement, it's too early. Answering your question: as far as I know, at present, no existing scientific branch approaches human physiology the way posturology is intended to, moreover no aknowledged posturology degree exists, the urgence is witnessed by the importance of rhe results that I'm attempting to validate and by the fact that an Information Technology prefessional has (hopefully) reached them. Concerning Una Smith's, I agree with what she says, Feldenkrais as well as Alexander and some other, are not scientific approaches, they are methods based on poor empiric and not repeatable evidences, they've founds useful hints to improove self awareness based on voluntary motor activity that incidentally and misteriously improove some symptoms, Alexander, in particular, closely focused on the motor mechanics I work on; aside from the lack of scientific approach, all existing theories and methods FAIL for NOT seeing that postural disorder is the result of emergency motor strategy implemented by reflexive motor activity aimed at supporting insufficiencies in physiologic vital reflexes and overlaying ordiary motor strategies, as such, NOT voluntary undoable and, like all reflexes, spontaneously subsiding after stimulus termination. I find hazardous the comparison between an etiologic theory and all existing empiric methods, to those brave enough to read my stuff it will be clearer why.Paoloplatania (talk) 13:07, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Probably the best way of doing what you suggest is to see if you can interest one of the alternative medical/experimental medical journals in a review on the topic. Then publish, publish, publish! Tim Vickers (talk) 16:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

... or the alternative? JFW | T@lk 08:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all. Paolo invited to come back in a few years, if the world agrees with his theory. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:01, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all What are they? Raymond "Giggs" K o 10:04, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Lack of notability. Axl (talk) 17:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.