Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Police patrol zones of Atlanta

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Atlanta Police Department. J04n(talk page) 17:30, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Police patrol zones of Atlanta[edit]

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I nominate this article for deletion based on the fact that this article (while including interesting information) is not notable. This article (and its content) does not pass WP:GNG or WP:ORG. In addition to the lack of notability, there is only one reliable source that isn't from the Atlanta Police department. A quick search on the AJC website and a few other places for source information only returns the various zones being listed or where a crime was committed. The sole source I could find pertaining toward any information about the zones themselves or why they would have notability is already in the article. The content is not encyclopedic in any matter as it just raw information. I would whole-heartly support the content in the form of a photo or simply the link that is on this page multiple times being included in the main Atlanta Police Department article. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 05:50, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

While I am not arguing one way or the other as to whether it should be deleted, I think people should know the following from "real life" which is not reflected in "reliable" sources. Among black working-class youth in Atlanta (and Atlanta is 54% black), and in the hip-hop as well as gang cultures, a person "reps" his police zone. "I rep zone 4" is understood by almost every black Atlantan to mean that they come from Zone 4, Southwest Atlanta. A Google search for "Zone 4 Atlanta" will come up with YouTube videos of the housing projects in Zone 4 that were torn down, rap lyrics, Urban Dictionary entries, Yahoo! Questions about which 'hood is in what zone, and other references to the "rep" concept. Clearly, the existence of multiple YouTube videos or rap lyrics mentioning this are not "reliable sources" - but in some sense is this not discriminatory? "Street culture" by definition is going to be far less documented in, say, the Wall Street Journal, compared to what you would find in the WSJ about, for example, "The Westside" in Los Angeles, which is also not official. But "The Westside" of LA is "better documented" because wealthy powerful people live there and write about it in their "reliable sources". The zone identity is a significant, important reality for tens of thousands of Atlantans. Unfortunately, to take it down because of lack of "reliable sources" (and not popular sources) is, indirectly, a reflection of the institutionalized disadvantage of being poor and/or black and/or young in our country, since their culture is not documented "reliably". I don't know how to reconcile this with Wikipedia policy and am hoping another editor has a bright idea.Keizers (talk) 15:32, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well after a long search I have found a couple sources which touch on the notariety of police zones among Atlanta's southside, overwhelmingly black, communities, though it does not begin to reflect their notoriety on the ground there. See the updated first paragraph of the article.Keizers (talk) 15:50, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also I saw that there were more than 7000 hits on the article in the last 90 days, something to consider as well, I am guessing but I think it's a lot of folks trying to find out which 'hood someone "reps". Keizers (talk) 16:01, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keizers: First, please do not take this AFD as any reflection on the article or the work you've done. And while the statistics are impressive, they do not add to notability. I most definitly want you to know that you've thus far done a tremendous job on keeping the page up-to-date and looking good. I sincerely do not want to lose the content, it is just simply not notable enough (in my opinion) for a article separate from the APD. I am more than happy to assist in any way incorporating it into that article whether by working on a graphic or table or something that would be beneficial. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 00:22, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep: After looking into this more closely I've been able to come to the conclusion that the police zones are notable as a cultural phenomenon and have added material and sources to the article to show notability - please see the changes I made earlier today. The police zones are strong identifiers of area commonly used by what must be a double-digit percentage of the city's population (working class black youth). So, this is just as notable (in real life) as "Buckhead" in Atlanta, "The West End" in London, or "The Westside" in Los Angeles, which are not political units either, but are notable because people define them as communities . As a result these places have articles in Wikipedia. If you are still not convinced that the zones themselves are significant, you can regard their significance in popular culture as the factor providing notability. I have added several reliable sources for this point, despite the significant handicap that the sources where cultural phenomena among working class black youth are most extensively documented (Urban Dictionary, YouTube, Twitter, City-Data etc.) are not considered "reliable" sources (this in contrast to cultural phenomena among middle- and upper-class people which is dozens of times better documented in traditional newspapers and other "reliable" sources). I have also illustrated the use of the zones as community identifiers in hip hop music lyrics by multiple major artists. Finally, I believe this article can stand alone, separately from the Atlanta Police Department article due to the unique nature of the zones as community identifiers i.e. the cultural use of the zones - which is actually quite distinct from their strict existence as zones strictly for police administration. Keizers (talk) 05:02, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (U.S. state)-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:18, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal: As I believe most of the content is relevant, although not notable, see discussions above, I have made what I think could simply be added to the Atlanta Police Department article. This section can be found: User:ТимофейЛееСуда/APD Zones I have listed the data 2 ways, the first (with only most relevant & notable locations listed in a table, and the second in list form. I have brought over the information from the article as it stands now and therefore the research is not mine. My wife created a map of the zones (per my discussion above) that can be edited or modified to fit the needs/desires of anyone requested. Any feedback would be appreciated. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 17:47, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My feedback on this: I think this is very close to a "List of Police Zones" in which case wouldn't this be separated out as a "list" article - even though not "notable" in the sense of having a separate article based on notability. Secondly, I am not sure what we would now do with the information I have gathered on the significance of the police zones in popular culture. So for those two reasons I still see it as a separate article, perhaps renamed "List of…". Keizers (talk) 13:30, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ‑Scottywong | spill the beans _ 23:26, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The content you added is not notable, and it seems to be grasping at anything that mentions a "zone" of Atlanta. 2 of the references you added do not pass WP:RS and are simply lyrics. Another 2 references are about a song by Gucci Mane. The only content you added was about musicians singing about their zone or that they rep a certain zone. An musician simply mentioning that they are from a specific area or that they "rep" it does not make the place notable, especially in this case. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 01:41, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete-non notable. We can add it to the Atlanta Police Department article.--Soroboro (talk) 01:24, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect to Atlanta Police Department. Stifle (talk) 13:29, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or merge Deb (talk) 19:04, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.