Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Philippe Étienne (athlete)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 23:04, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Philippe Étienne (athlete)[edit]

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No indication of notability. Never won a medal and placed 24th in the 1975 Pan American Games,. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 16:01, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Haiti. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 16:01, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Olympics-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 16:43, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, thank you for nominating this article for deletion because it gives us a chance to improve it. This subject is very difficult to research because his name is the same as a prominent French ambassador and most Haitian sources are in French. What we do know is that he competed at six events at major international championships (100m and 200m at 1976 Olympics, 1975 Pan Ams, 1975 University Games) and that he was an associate of then-president Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier. These connections need to be looked into further before a deletion decision is made. --Habst (talk) 14:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. A person who could run a bit, but sadly not fast enough to make them remotely notable on that count. MisterWizzy (talk) 13:54, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@MisterWizzy, thank you for your reply. This discussion is a difficult one because we decide whether to keep an article based on notability, not speed -- although the two are definitely correlated. Étienne ran the men's 200m at the 1976 Olympics. I did the research, and it appears that every single 200m Olympian currently has an article from 2020, 2016, 2012, 2008, 2004, 2000, 1996, 1992, 1988, 1984, 1980, 1976, 1972, 1968, 1964, 1960, 1956, 1952, 1948, 1936, 1932, and 1928.

I had to go all the way back to 1924 to find a single men's 200m athlete without an article. It would defy probability to say that Étienne is the only 200m Olympian, including many of his contemporaries who were slower than him, from that time period out of thousands who is not notable. This combined with the fact that his name is the same as a prominent French ambassador, is why I think what we do know about him needs to be researched further before we decide to delete. What do you think? --Habst (talk) 17:08, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:11, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Getting into the Olympics because he's a pal of a dictator does not constitute notability. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a valid argument either. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Clarityfiend, thank you for your vote because it helps us think more about the article. The reason why I brought up Étienne's probable association with Duvalier is because I think it might be one of many leads for research on reliable sources. For example, see the article about Dieudonné LaMothe, who was a contemporary of Étienne and selected for the same reason, and there are many reliable sources about him.

re WP:OTHER, thank you for pointing that out, it's absolutely true that just because something else exists, that should affect decisions made on an unrelated or marginally related thing. My argument isn't that because these articles exist, then Étienne's article should exist -- it's just used as a probabilistic indication of notability, similar to how the rules in WP:NSPORTS are laid out to say "reliable sources are likely to exist for these articles if..." If sources exist for hundreds (thousands?) of other 200m Olympians without exception since 1928, it would stand to reason that sources likely exist for Étienne too -- we just need to find them, which is why I think we need to investigate the leads we have further before proceeding to delete. What do you think about that? --Habst (talk) 15:54, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Subject does not meet the WP:GNG due to a lack of independent WP:SIGCOV. Keep arguments read a lot like WP:OSE and WP:MUSTBESOURCES. A note to Habst, this subject ran in the 100m, not the 200m. User:Let'srun 17:40, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Let'srun, thank you for your vote. A note to Habst, this subject ran in the 100m, not the 200m -- I think this sentence is exactly why we need to improve this article -- the subject actually did run in the 200m (see source), but the article currently only mentions his 100m run. I totally agree that just saying WP:MUSTBESOURCES is not a defense -- that's why I am asking you to help us find Haitian or other sources for Étienne. I tried, but I could not find any tools at WP:LIBRARY that cover Haiti from that time period. Do you know of any leads? --Habst (talk) 18:44, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.