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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. No in-depth sourcing in reliable sources, as is pointed out in the AfD. Drmies (talk) 02:47, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Peter John Ross[edit]

Peter John Ross (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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This subject fails the WP:BASIC threshold, namely for lack of substantial coverage by reliable third parties. There's plenty of exceedingly local coverage (especially the Clintonville Booster), passing mention, and PR stories, though. This subject also fails WP:CREATIVE because the same can be said for his work. He does exist, but reliable sources don't indicate any significance. JFHJr (㊟) 19:52, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:22, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:22, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Whilst the user wants to claim the coverage is solely local by the Clintonville Booster, there is substantial national and international media coverage on Peter John Ross. I don't their opinion of the work itself bares any relevance to the articles inclusion on wikipedia.

See also as reliable 3rd party sources: VIDEOMAKER MAGAZINE http://www.videomaker.com/article/13043/2/

THE VILLAGE VOICE http://www.villagevoice.com/2000-02-01/film/building-to-fever-pitches/1/

and screenprints of articles from international magazines http://www.sonnyboo.com/images/computerarts_bg.jpg http://www.sonnyboo.com/press/digitalvideo.jpg http://www.horrorsofwarmovie.com/images/press/markee-article.jpg

Lest we forget Wikipedia itself interview Peter John Ross http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_interviews_author_and_filmmaker_Peter_John_Ross

Please ban this individual from continually editing my page, please. Also, it is not exactly fair for someone to change the entry from "Short Films" to "Youtube videos" to attempt to belittle the many film festivals each of those short films played at world wide - as is verifiable on IMDB on each listing for RELEASE DATES — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonnyboo (talk • contribs) 02:46, 8 April 2013 (UTC) — Sonnyboo (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

  • The Village Voice article is a fine example of passing mention, lack of biographical detail, and coverage of another topic entirely. The jpg entitled digital video is not substantial coverage of Peter John Ross (it doesn't even mention him). The horrorsofwarmovie url is broken and unarchived as far as I know. As for the archived videomaker article, the subject apparently writes for videomaker, so it's not actually third party as claimed above, but reporting on someone who publishes on videomaker. The jpg computerarts is decent, but isn't enough alone (multiple reliable sources?).
Finally, there are clear WP:COI, WP:SPA, WP:AUTO and WP:OWN issues going on, compounded by an utter failure to understand that IMDB and Youtube aren't reliable sources, especially for establishing notability and significance of biographical content regarding living persons. Cheers. JFHJr (㊟) 15:46, 8 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, I can include more references http://www.sonnyboo.com/press/videomaker-bg.jpg Which is an article and interview with Peter John Ross before he started writing for them.

http://www.sonnyboo.com/images1/markee.jpg Markee magazine which mentions Peter John Ross

http://www.sonnyboo.com/press/res.jpg RES magazine interview with Peter John Ross

http://www.moviesonline.ca/movienews_6234.html another interview

At no time is Youtube used as verification of anything. IMDB can reliably state if a film is played at any festivals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.62.162.214 (talk) 19:00, 8 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • The first link there appears to be the same as the videomaker article you previously offered. Passing mentions are almost worthless when it comes to establishing notability; I'll ignore those. The RES interview is more substantial, but the content is the same as WP:BLPSPS, an example of Ross speaking about Ross (as opposed to a third party doing it). Same goes for the Moviesonline interview, with ample WP:BLPSPS content; the fact that the website is "The Latest Movie News & Reviews By Fans & For Fans" and says "We are a fan site" takes it down a peg or two from squarely reliable reporting to start with (see WP:CRUFT). IMDB is user-generated and is categorically unreliable; even if it were reliable for showings, as you assert, dates of showings alone do not establish notability, nor do they comprise substantial coverage. Cheers. JFHJr (㊟) 19:53, 8 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And then why did WIKIPEDIA interview Peter John Ross if he isn't noteworthy enough for.... wikipedia? http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_interviews_author_and_filmmaker_Peter_John_Ross

I believe your interest in deleting this article is personal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.62.162.214 (talk) 22:34, 8 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And who deleted all the IMDB links? And why if this isn't personal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.62.162.214 (talk) 17:10, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]


I wish to address the comments from Woodywoody1 on 3 April 2013:

>>I have done some investigation into this article about film maker Peter John Ross. I am questioning why this article is on wikipeida. It also appears, after reading some of this man's writing that he wrote the article himself. >>

I did not write the article myself. I have modified it, but that's it.

>>>While he released a feature film Horrors of War the film did not sell, at all.

It sold over 300,000 units worldwide.

>>>>It was panned by critics, having a 2 out 10 star rating.

Yes, but that changes not the notability of an internationally released film.

>>>>External documentation shows that Ross claims to have "worldwide distribution" which is actually just an account with Amazon.com.

There is no such documentation because the film has been released by multiple distribution companies worldwide. http://horrorsofwar.sonnyboo.com/postergallery.php contains scans and release images of the DVD art by various companies from countries such as Japan, Belgium, Sweden, UK, etc. Horrors of War is not a self released title and is represented by Hollywood Wizard (now Voyde Pictures) for worldwide sales http://www.voydepix.com/video/horrors-of-war/ and was released in the U.S. by Maverick Entertainement http://www.maverickentertainment.cc/filmdetail.php?ProductID=667

>>>>The magazine he writes for Videomaker, has a circulation of 17,000 people.

Videomaker is a trade magazine and I cannot speak to their circulation.

>>>This man is not notable, nor does he deserve to be given the status of notability since he has clearly not earned it. I personally know people with much prolific careers who have not been able to retain a Wikipedia page.

Thus revealing the true intent of these edits and submission - purely a personal opinion and gripe that has nothing to do with Wikipedia.

I have made my statements with honesty and external references to back up my claims. The users here are clearly making a personal bias and editing the article to defame or harass the individual.

70.62.162.214 (talk) 18:56, 9 April 2013 (UTC)Peter John Ross[reply]


Also, I noted that someone not only removed the Wikinews interview and the IMDB links, most likely to 'make the case' that the subject is less noteworthy than facts state.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_interviews_author_and_filmmaker_Peter_John_Ross

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0743748/

http://www.amazon.com/Peter-John-Ross/e/B002OT56TU/ref=sr_tc_2_0

Additional article to establish notability from printed press include:

MOVIEMAKER MAGAZINE mention: http://www.sonnyboo.com/images1/press/moviemaker.jpg

PENNYBLOOD MAGAZINE http://www.sonnyboo.com/images1/press/pennyblood1.jpg http://www.sonnyboo.com/images1/press/pennyblood2.jpg http://www.sonnyboo.com/images1/press/pennyblood3.jpg http://www.sonnyboo.com/images1/press/pennyblood4.jpg http://www.sonnyboo.com/images1/press/pennyblood5.jpg


MARKEE MAGAZINE (separate from previously mentioned article) http://www.sonnyboo.com/images1/press/markee-article.jpg http://www.sonnyboo.com/images1/press/markee.jpg

and the Horrors of War movie site is archived at http://horrorsofwar.sonnyboo.com

Also, just for clarification purposes - All the short films that appear on YouTube have played at film festivals before being uploaded to the site throughout the years 1999-2013. To specifically cite that the movies now appear on Youtube as a lack of relevance has no bearing on the history and validation of the individual pieces.

I wish to complain that this is nothing more than someone's attempt to have the article removed more for personal reasons than any valid ones.

70.62.162.214 (talk) 20:35, 9 April 2013 (UTC)Peter John Ross[reply]


Also I noted that they removed all the awards AND their references, again to make the subject appear less relevant. Please see prior version of this article as verification. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.62.162.214 (talk) 20:41, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The links above are to (as mentioned) articles from print scanned. Some publications do not have websites or are no longer in business.

User SONNYBOO is Peter John Ross. http://www.videomaker.com/article/13484 http://www.videomaker.com/article/13743 http://www.videomaker.com/article/15332 http://www.videomaker.com/article/15658 http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_interviews_author_and_filmmaker_Peter_John_Ross

Someone is editing the original article, removing all links and references to 3rd part sources for the intent purpose of getting the article removed. I do not think this is fair and the article should revert back to what it was before April 1st, 2013.

I fail to see how someone can be interviewed for Wikinews but not qualify for Wikipedia... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.62.162.214 (talk) 22:12, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Walls of text and contentious arguments are not going to disguise the fact that the subject seems to thoroughly lack significant coverage in independent, reliable sources, and so fails WP:GNG and WP:CREATIVE. Almost every single reference and link given here and in the article are either self-generated content, circular references or passing mentions at best. And arguing about established guidelines about what is and isn't reliable or relevant is problematic at best. No prejudice to reversing my !vote, as always, if someone comes up with breakthrough evidence of notability. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 21:43, 10 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: To the IP address adding all the text above, improving the actual article is a better way to save the article. It is important to use WP:RS, not links to wikinews, amazon or to organizations/publications he is associated with. See Wikipedia:Help desk for any questions. SalHamton (talk) 22:12, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Yunshui 雲‍水 10:01, 15 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - It is always a bad sign when the AfD defense is longer than the article. No opinion. Carrite (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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