Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Penton Keah

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 23:37, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Penton Keah[edit]

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not notable by any measure. There is only one source from Sudans Post that mentions his name, which is a news outlet that belongs to his brother! Other than that, not even in-passing mentions. FuzzyMagma (talk) 20:44, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Entertainment, Internet, Egypt, and Sudan. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 21:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep a basic internet search shows he is clearly notable in South Sudan. Probably not notable outside of South Sudan, but global notability is not a requirement of WP:SIGCOV and national coverage is enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributor892z (talk • contribs) 13:09, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please share that simple search?

i above included a search with zero results FuzzyMagma (talk) 13:02, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@FuzzyMagma: I really mean as simple as that [1]. You can quickly see that he has 1.8 million followers on Facebook, which is almost double the 1.0 million followers on Facebook that Jeremy Clarkson has, and nearly everyone in the UK knows who Jeremy Clarkson is. Contributor892z (talk) 21:05, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Contributor892z: WP:GOOGLEHITS, WP:IKNOWIT. Eagles 24/7 (C) 13:30, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Eagles247: my point is the absolute opposite of WP:IKNOWIT. I never heard of the subject until this delete discussion. But then I searched his name and concluded that he must be a notable person in South Sudan, and this is exactly what his bio article is saying. Contributor892z (talk) 13:46, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Eagles247: and WP:GOOGLEHITS is completely not applicable here. I’m using number of followers, a very objective measure of quality of the hit, and concluding that this number is consistent with the number of a notable person in South Sudan. Unless we change the rules of Wikipedia and say that notability only counts for people that appear in Western media, we need to use other tools to ascertain the notability of people that do not appear in Western media. Contributor892z (talk) 13:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Contributor892z this is not a popularity contest fandom website, if that was the case, we would have written only about Youtubers and TikTokers.

Please take a look to WP:42, these are the very basic criteria.

This individual did not receive a significant coverage from multiple reliable and independent sources. As I mentioned in the nom, the two mentions comes from his brother (if not himself, as he is one of the founders of the Sudan Post, so not independent. And you are talking about Facebook followers, which is not a criteria for notability.

Your whole reason for a keep is not a reason, and your comment should be stricken down as you clearly have no clue what WP:SIGCOV entails.

As I said, if you can show, (and this is the bare minimum), significant coverage from multiple reliable and independent sources, then please enlighten us. And please check Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources before mentioning Facebook again. FuzzyMagma (talk) 16:35, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@FuzzyMagma: such an unnecessary aggression! your comment should be stricken down as you clearly cannot have a dialogue with someone that has a different point of view. South Sudan is a country ravaged by war, the world youngest country. This subject has set up with his brother what is arguably the only independent news outlet of South Sudan. No country in the world seems to care about South Sudan. There is only one independent news source. How can any of those rules that you mention be possibly applicable? I'm not talking here about fandom website! I'm talking about using publicly available evidence to establish that someone is notable in a country that nobody in the West cares about. According to Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources (which I know very well, by the way), you can't use Facebook as news source because it's self published with no editorial oversight. But that has nothing to do with what I'm saying! I'm using reliable information, independent of the subject, available on Facebook to show that this person has fulfilled requirement number 2 of WP:ENTERTAINER, namely: "The person has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment." which field? social media in South Sudan! Contributor892z (talk) 17:47, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
you understand that is not a reliable source? Your opinion and google search is not a reliable source. do you understand that?

read WP:Original research please, and please stop patronising me. FuzzyMagma (talk) 18:39, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:35, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Contributor892z, you claim that FuzzyMagma's comment (which is correct about notability btw) is uncivil, but then you proceed to write an extremely aggressive comment which ignores policy. Facebook cannot be used as a source. " using reliable information, independent of the subject, available on Facebook " is the very definition of using a source. It does not matter if there is only 1 reliable outlet in South Sudan, if it's connected to him its not independent and thus cannot be used to establish notability. You have the gall to claim that you understand perennial sources, only to immediately contradict it, and say it doesn't apply. Industrial Insect (talk) 18:46, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Industrial Insect: and @FuzzyMagma: this will be my last comment to prevent this discussion from becoming even more uncivil than already is. I’m not patronising anyone, not doing original research and not having an opinion. I’m just using a counter, which is a matter of fact and can be independently checked and audited by anyone. Whether I like the subject of this article or not, and whether I agree if his person is notable or not, this person has irrefutable evidence of having provided a contribution to a field of entertainment that is bigger than the contribution of other entertainers that are certain to stay in Wikipedia forever. Therefore, my assessment of keep stays.Contributor892z (talk) 19:54, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1) You have NOT proven the subject has satisfied WP:ENTERTAINER in any way. You've only explained the vague notion of "social media in South Sudan".

2) Even if you had, it must be verified by an independent, reliable source. Neither Facebook, nor the newspaper written by his brother can count towards this. Industrial Insect (talk) 13:01, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete after reading the discussion, this is a pretty clear case of failing to satisfy WP:GNG, WP:ENTERTAINER given the exactly 0 news hits a search returns.

Allan Nonymous (talk) 21:25, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.