Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pearl Aday

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus. Mailer Diablo 03:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pearl Aday

Delete: Not sure on the applicable standards here but it looks like a case of reflected glory. She's the daughter of Meat Loaf and the wife of Scott Ian but doesn't seem to have done anything notable herself, at least not according to WP:MUSIC. Maybe a merge to Meat Loaf? —Wknight94 (talk) 04:34, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete non-notable biography. --Ter e nc e Ong (恭喜发财) 04:56, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep She was (is?) a full member of Neverland Express, Meatloaf's group. Being a member of a notable band is criteria for keeping I think? Mind you the article could do with cleaning up. Jcuk 08:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Well, there's no mention of "Neverland Express" anywhere else in Wikipedia, including Meat Loaf. In fact, there's no mention of it on Amazon either. I've seen a few similar articles (relatives of notable people) deleted as hoaxes ---- maybe this is another one? Whatever Neverland Express was, the article says she was a touring member, not necessarily a full member. This is why I nominated - everything sounds very suspicious. —Wknight94 (talk) 11:46, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Now I see Neverland Express is Meat Loaf's touring band or something? How notable could it be if I had to find that out on Google instead of Wikipedia? So basically Pearl Aday was a backup singer on the touring band of a guy that hasn't had a hit in a decade?... —Wknight94 (talk) 11:52, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - You mean you've never had to make an article about a very notable band before? Just because WP doesn't have an article on it doesn't automatically mean it's not notable. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEME?) 14:43, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - I assume your question is rhetorical - but the answer is no, I haven't. Is there something notable about this band that wouldn't just be in Meat Loaf? Regardless, the question is whether someone who has essentially been a backup singer needs a separate article. If yes then so be it. —Wknight94 (talk) 15:05, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      - My question actually wasn't rhetorical, but it probably should have been, given the amount of deletions you've been putting up the last few days. Just because it isn't on WP doesn't mean it's not notable, and I think this should stay, regardless. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEME?) 15:14, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEME?) 14:43, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. Eusebeus 17:25, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Um, the bottom of the article admits its taken from her website. I think that makes it speediable as a copyvio, does it not? -R. fiend 17:39, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I thought the same but it didn't look like the given URL was the same as the article. Maybe that note just means the web site is a reference? Or maybe it's a copyvio of some other page underneath that URL. —Wknight94 (talk) 17:54, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - You have to go to the "biography" section of that page: [1]. Looks indentical to me. -R. fiend 17:56, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - Regardless, if it is or not, I've cleaned it up somewhat and added wikilinks. It still needs some referencing regarding what albums she's been featured on, I'll try to get to it. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEME?) 17:57, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      - Isn't copyvio in the edit history still an issue? Anyway, my vote is delete regardless. It's still a vanity piece, referenced only from her own site, which is not a good source. Not convinced singing backup on a couple albums is any more notable than playing 3rd violin some recording of Beethoven's 4th symphony that you'd find in a bargain barrel at music store. Perhaps recreate as a redirect to Neverland Express, if/when that gets an article. -R. fiend 18:01, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm sure it can be dealt with without deleting the entire article. Also, there's an interview with her and Meat Loaf available from the UK Times here [2] that helps further establish notability. A little bit of googling goes a long way. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEME?) 18:10, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: One simple test I have regarding reflected glory is, "would this person have an article if they weren't related to X"? I'd think the answer would be "no" in this case - but I could be wrong. —Wknight94 (talk) 18:28, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- After doing some research, it's a certain maybe, and that's without mentioning a sort of precedent regarding children of famous people. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEME?) 18:40, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - The answer has definitely been maybe as far as my Afd track record goes with such scenarios. Louis Osbourne was an article about Ozzy's son who had at least done some DJ'ing at clubs and was in a documentary about children of rock stars. His article is gone - merged into Ozzy's as a section (and I see has since been removed altogether). Eduard Einstein was the son of Albert and his only notability was being a schizophrenic who spent most of his life in institutions. His useless article remains - mostly on the basis that his name appears in www.schizophrenia.com. Those two establish no pattern whatsoever. —Wknight94 (talk) 19:01, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Has appeared on a number of Meatloaf albums according to her Allmusic.com article see [3]. The London Times article further establishes verifiability. As to notability, we have kept backing musicians with a reasonable record of credits on significant records. She appears to qualify on this count. Capitalistroadster 22:32, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Either Merge into Meat Loaf or Delete as non-notable. If we have to go through this much navel-gazing to decide if she's notable, then she's not. --Aaron 23:09, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - esp. since the page mentions a forthcoming solo album. She also performed a duet on Couldn't Have Said It Better, rather than merely a backing singer. This is someone who's appeared in a notable role on an album with a worldwide release, not someone from a student band with homemade CDs. The Meat Loaf article is too big for a merge. The JPS 01:49, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: "Forthcoming album" argument is a little flimsy. It certainly wouldn't be the first planned album that never materialized. And the Meat Loaf article isn't even giving a length warning message so I think it would merge fine. —Wknight94 (talk) 01:55, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - If her forthcoming album was her only point of notability, then you might have a point. She has a fairly solid resume. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEME?) 03:09, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - There's far worse things on wikipedia. Human judgement is sufficient for the length of the ML article. Take away the "Forthcoming album" and she's still notable. How many non-notable people have fan sites? The JPS 02:33, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - Lots of good points here. I'm just saying an alleged forthcoming album isn't one of them. And neither is the Meat Loaf article supposedly being too big for a merge. As for other arguments thusfar, I still don't see much notable outside of Meat Loaf - but so be it. —Wknight94 (talk) 04:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Capitalroadster as notable. Turnstep 02:53, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Based on the article she's done a lot of good work. Absolutely no merge- this woman stands on her own. -- JJay 01:20, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.