Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Patricio French

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Domingo French. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 18:08, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Patricio French[edit]

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Patricio French (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Run-of-the-mill merchant who lived in Buenos Aires in the 1700s. Fails WP:GNG. BEFORE produced only this genealogy which does not help with the GNG, and the rest are REFBOMBs per my assessment table. Created by a ban-evading sock of a permablocked account, escaped G5 because an IP made a substantial contribution to this article. Pilaz (talk) 21:56, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://books.google.fr/books?id=lagZAAAAYAAJ&q=domingo+french+buenos+aires&redir_esc=y Yes Yes No No mention of "Patricio French" ✘ No
https://books.google.fr/books?id=vR9lAAAAMAAJ&q=patricio+french++comerciante&redir_esc=y Yes Yes No No mention at all ✘ No
https://books.google.fr/books?id=S6lXAAAAMAAJ&q=patricio+french++Cristobalina+Alcal%C3%A1&redir_esc=y Yes Yes No No mention at all ✘ No
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/163796 No primary source signed by Patricio French Yes ? Hard to ascertain because it's handwritten ✘ No
https://books.google.fr/books?id=xwEXAQAAMAAJ&q=Patricio+French+buenos+aires&redir_esc=y Yes Yes No A single mention page 81 ✘ No
https://books.google.fr/books?id=40DRnjI4a-YC&q=patricio+french++buenos+aires&pg=PA137&redir_esc=y ? ? ? Book is no longer on Google Books ? Unknown
https://books.google.fr/books?id=S9JbmhmS4LAC&q=coronel+patricio+french&redir_esc=y Yes Yes No A single mention page 42 ✘ No
https://books.google.fr/books?redir_esc=y&id=OvoJAQAAIAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=patricio+french Yes Yes No No mention at all ✘ No
https://books.google.fr/books?id=f_ozAQAAIAAJ&q=domingo+french+calle+Defensa&redir_esc=y Yes Yes No No mention at all ✘ No
https://books.google.fr/books?id=NiVNAQAAMAAJ&q=Oliver+French+galway&pg=PA306&redir_esc=y Yes Yes No No mention at all ✘ No
https://books.google.fr/books?id=_8g_AAAAcAAJ&q=Oliver+Age+French+margaret+joyce&pg=PA40&redir_esc=y#v=snippet&q=Oliver%20Age%20French%20margaret%20joyce&f=false Yes Yes No No mention at all ✘ No
https://books.google.fr/books?id=B90XAAAAIAAJ&q=patricio+french+irlandes&redir_esc=y Yes Yes No No mention at all ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
Pilaz (talk) 21:59, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: this extremely brief mention suggests to me that one of the Spanish-language sources listed at the end of this encyclopedia article might have something more significant, if anyone is inclined to dig them out. -- asilvering (talk) 23:32, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep but Tag as stub -- That source calls him an Irish administrator. Being a leading import merchant might be enough to make him notable. What is available in Spanish? Peterkingiron (talk) 17:51, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Being a leading import merchant (which I doubt he was) is not inherently notable. As for the "Irish administrator" part, I don't see it in the genealogy source I provided - it's Patricio French y Alcalá that we are discussing, not one of his descendants. At any rate, you don't seem to dispute my concerns about WP:GNG. Pilaz (talk) 13:54, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:35, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak Keep -- Did a brief search for 'Patricio French' and his son 'Domingo French'. While accounts mentioning him in English exclusively relate to his genealogical connections, he receives more attention in Spanish language texts. From what I've gathered, he is the patriarch of a wealthy family of Irish and Spanish origins who settled near Buenos Aries, but he is not the main subject of any documents I could find, receiving only a few paragraphs briefly documenting his business and his progeny. There are no detailed description of his business activities. That being said, everything I've seen points to a man who, although poorly documented, did play a significant role in the local economy and possibly its upper-class society. Right now most 18th and 19th century documents from Argentina have yet to be digitized, and it is quite possible that there is more substantial information simply not available to Wikipedia editors at this time. A bit of an edge case, but I er on the side of keep. Thereppy (talk) 00:27, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • You seem to agree that the coverage of Patricio French does not meet WP:GNG: in your words, it is "poorly documented", his role as a merchant is ill-defined, and he receives "only a few paragraphs" briefly documenting his activities (which paragraphs?). Being the ancestor to a patrician family does make one inherently notable. You acknowledge that he is exclusively covered in genealogical terms, and your weak keep rests on the possibility that substantial information exists somewhere in a library in Argentina - which I can't disprove, but which you've also omitted to prove (WP:MUSTBESOURCES). Everything points to a failure of significant coverage, which I think is because Patricio French was not a particularly notable person. Pilaz (talk) 13:47, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 01:09, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 01:10, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • From what I can tell (Spanish is not one of my strongest languages, but I can make sense of it) most mentions of Patricio simply name him as the father of Domingo French, who is certainly notable. A redirect would seem to be the way to go here. Phil Bridger (talk) 16:34, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • No prejudice against redirecting from me. Pilaz (talk) 19:26, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 13:43, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Redirect per Phil Bridger. The sources in the article are terrible breadcrumbs as they don't seem to mention him at all or aren't suitable, so I can't support a keep, but it also feels as if everything could be remedied if better sources are found, probably because there are familial mentions, possibly due to Domingo. I also wouldn't have a problem restoring this if better sources are found. SportingFlyer T·C 12:57, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Less Unless (talk) 10:02, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Redirect: Sorry, I didn't chime in again before this last relist because the redirect outcome seemed inevitable. It's probably worth it to add an extra sentence or two to Domingo French before deleting this and redirecting, but given that most of the "sources" here are just refbombing, a sentence or two is all there is to be pulled from this whole thing. That's not something worth keeping in the hopes that more sources turn up; if significant sources do turn up (and it doesn't look like they will any time soon) it would be just as easy to start this over from scratch anyway. -- asilvering (talk) 17:18, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Domingo French seems the best path forward for this. This fellow just is not notable on his own. 80.247.89.52 (talk) 17:24, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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