Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Park Jung Suk

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep --Anthony.bradbury^"talk" 23:35, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Park Jung Suk[edit]

The article fails to assert the notability of this profession computer game player who peaked in 2002. The non-notability tag has been removed on grounds that he satisfies WP:BIO, as allegedly he is equivalent to a competitor who has played in a fully professional league. I would suggest that professional sportspeople inhabit the real world where they can receive independent coverage in newspapers & magazines, whereas Park Jung Suk occupied a virtual world, which is relative annonymous, ephemeral, but ultimately non-notable. --Gavin Collins 20:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep - Ample google hits, clearly meets WP:BIO criteria, and stating that he is a professional gamer is an assertation of notability. Neither the shortcomings of the article nor the appararent bias of the nominator against electronic sports are any reason for deletion. PC78 22:55, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Korea-related deletions. -- PC78 22:56, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This AfD is based on the nominator's dismissal of the entire field. I disagree. --Kizor 23:55, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Extremely Strong DELETE. Just stating that the subject of this article earns his living by playing games is NOT an assertion of notability. For example, there are a great many professional golfers and professional tennis players who are only known by the people that they work with and compete with. They earn a living, but are not notable figures for encyclopedia purposes. Unless Park Jung Suk has received real recognition in the press which is verifiable from reliable sources there is no reason to have an article about him on Wikipedia. This fellow belongs on MySpace.com, not Wikipedia. OfficeGirl 00:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From WP:BIO, Athletes: "Competitors who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming or tennis." This sufficient criterion for notability is satisfied. Debivort 04:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think OfficeGirl has made a fair comment. Although computer games are very popular, they are a relatively solitary pastime, with little coverage outside gaming magazines and fansites. Notability is not inherited, and playing a notable computer game does not confer notability. The point is if there was more independent information about him, then notability could be established regardless of his sport or nationality. --Gavin Collins 09:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly, I don't think either of you understand this phenomenon. Go watch this video which has some commentary on the culture of pro computer gaming in Korea. Debivort 15:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I've put this on Gavin's talk page and I'll put it here for others to read. Starcraft in Korea is not a "solitary past time" (and how many times do we have to repeat this) but a spectator sport, it has become significant that even across the world the BBC should write:-

"In some nations gamers are looked down upon, but in South Korea professional gaming, or e-sports, is worth billions of dollars and players are seen as heroes...as if to prove that computer gaming is like sports, in a stadium used in the 1988 Olympic Games...Around 30,000 fans have turned up to see the biggest stars battle it out...they are playing Starcraft...It is the most popular game in South Korea and the only one with its own professional league." follow this link to read the article in full.

It is systemic bias and an unwillingness to accept any World view that is not your own narrow and parochial one as having any truth and validity to paraphrase Swift "...only a fool believes that the customs, and mores of his native land, has the weight of natural laws." that computer games are "solitary and "annonymous, ephemeral"(sic) where you live, does not mean that the same is true everywhere.KTo288 09:36, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Non-trivial coverage in major Korean newspapers such as JoongAng Ilbo [1], Chosun Ilbo [2], etc. Strongly disagree with presumption of automatic notability for video game players (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daigo Umehara (third nomination), but this one seems fine. cab 01:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep these nominations are systemic bias of the worst order see this BBC page to see how big e-sports are in Korea, and as to champions vs journeymen, read the article, he has won one of the leagues and has regularly come in second.KTo288 02:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It seems that sources do exist to verify notability. The fact that they're not in the article would be a cleanup issue, not grounds for deletion. I'm adding sourcing templates to the page to this end. --Bfigura ^(talk) 03:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep per WP:BIO, and WP:BIAS. Debivort 04:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and source. The nominator asserts that "professional sportspeople inhabit the real world where they can receive independent coverage in newspapers & magazines". This is in fact true in Korea, where video gaming is very much akin to a national sport, and winning major events would make one notable in the same way as for a physical athlete. Although all articles should in principle be referenced, I have no reason to doubt notability in this case. --Dhartung | Talk 04:24, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not notable--Sefringle^Talk 03:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Can you explain what part of WP:BIO he fails, especially given that I already demonstrated he has multiple instances of non-trivial coverage in reliable sources? cab 06:00, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Response The link to game fan articles provide no evidence of notability; I assume they would have been translated and quoted if they did. --Gavin Collins 18:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? Being "translated and quoted" hasn't got anything to do with WP:N. cab 01:34, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.