Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Northern Inuit Dog (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to Tamaskan Dog without prejudice against splitting this back, if reliable sources can ascertain this as a separate, notable breed. Owen× ☎ 21:54, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Inuit Dog

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Fails general notability and breed notability, article is of poor quality all of the sources that could be used to establish notability such as the news articles don't even mention the breed. Traumnovelle (talk) 23:50, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Animal and Biology. Shaws username . talk . 23:56, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: United Kingdom and England. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:22, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I'm not overly thrilled with the lack of scholarly publications but this dog rocketed to notability in popular culture, notably in Game of Thrones, as the mascot for North Carolina State University and in the TV series Outlander. It has quite a few page views on a regular basis. People are curious about the dogs, and while I admit a certain amount of reluctance, I certainly like the idea of experienced editors observing this page so that it can be a source of verifiability. I did some cleanup, and I'm happy at least with the history section which confirms that this is not an ancient landrace nor does it have any real relationship with Native Americans. (In real life, I do a lot of competitive dog sports and I hear both those myths a lot.) Here's the page views: [1] Annwfwn (talk) 02:09, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any source that shows notability beyond the show itself? The North Carolina Uni mascot is 'a mix of German shepherd, Alaskan malamute and Siberian husky' and not a northern Inuit dog. Traumnovelle (talk) 02:22, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both the articles cited are clear the NCSU mascot is a Tamaskan dog, this is the quote from the New York Times article: “Fortunately, officials had heard about a new breed of dog that looked just like a wolf: The Tamaskan is a mix of German shepherd, Alaskan malamute and Siberian husky, first bred in Finland in the 2000s. And there was a Tamaskan club in North Carolina.” Annwfwn (talk) 02:34, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The tamaskan is a different dog breed according to the article. Traumnovelle (talk) 04:13, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 00:55, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This page confuses me. We already have a page on Tamaskan Dog. However, the redirect Tamaskan dog (lowercase) links here. Are these the same breed? Is Tamaskan an offshoot of this? If so it seems more notable than the parent breed, so Merge/redirect to Tamaskan Dog as an ATD. But really I'm just confused... PARAKANYAA (talk) 02:40, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes that's what confuses me, the tamaskan clearly has some notability based on it's use as a mascot but this would only extend to the northern Inuit dog if they were the same breed/very closely related (Norwich versus Norfolk Terrier). @Annwfwn is the tamaskan a separate breed? Traumnovelle (talk) 03:20, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This obviously is not a reliable source, but looking at this ancient forum thread they seem to likely be two separate breeds that are often compared. Now, if there were reliable sources saying otherwise that would be fine, but looking up Tamaskan + this breed just gets a bunch of garbage sources that seem to be copying from Wikipedia. I can't find any reliable source that discusses this breed as either an offshoot of or related to the Tamaskan. So delete I guess? The Tamaskan is (probably) notable but I can't find anything about this breed besides it existing and the singular study on its health problems. PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:08, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(also i'm going to retarget Tamaskan dog) PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:10, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not according to several of the sources, the Tamaskan is an offshoot of the Northern Inuit Dog. Annwfwn (talk) 04:09, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which sources? No reliable ones seem to say that from my searches. PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:10, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is from “Clinical, histopathological and genetic characterisation of oculoskeletal dysplasia in the Northern Inuit Dog.”

The Northern Inuit Dog (NID) breed is a relatively new breed developed in the 1980s in the United Kingdom, from dogs of unknown breeds imported from North America that were bred with the German Shepherd, Siberian Husky, Alaskan Malamute and possibly the Samoyed dog [27]. The intention was to breed a dog of wolf-like appearance that could be a family pet with an aptitude for work. The breed has since split into a number of similar breeds including NID, Tamaskan, Utonagan and British Timber dog and all are growing in popularity.

And this is a primary source, so less weight, but from the Tamaskan Dog Registry’s website:

By combining the original English (Northern Inuit/Utonagan) bloodlines with the new Finnish outcross bloodlines, the first generation of registered Tamaskan Dogs was born in May 2006 at Alba in Scotland. At the same time, the Tamaskan Dog Registry (TDR) was founded for the purpose of overseeing the development of the breed.

Both of these sources are cited in the article text.

Annwfwn (talk) Annwfwn (talk) 04:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, then merge and redirect to Tamaskan Dog. There are not enough sources for this breed. PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:25, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, okay, so the reason it was targeted there is because Tamaskan Dog was merged into this article and then split back out. From what I can see Tamaskan seems to be marginally more notable - used as mascot and in shows + recognized by at least one register. ~~And again, I can't actually find any proof in reliable sources that this breed has anything to do with the Tamaskan.~~ nvm see above PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:24, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

- Redirect to Tamaskan Dog, we seem to have a content fork here, so one article is enough. If there's anything worth merging then merge into the bargain. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:06, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. I was going to close this as a Merge to Tamaskan Dog but reading this discussion, it's not at all certain that these two dogs are related. Maybe this will become clearer in the next few days. So, whenever this is closed after further comment, I expect it will either be a Merge or a No Consensus closure.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:33, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.